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The answers to all the undine questions can probably be answered if Tavara's mystery was answered, but that would never happen.

Maybe Tavara is an undine...

Maybe that "Nothing" face is Omen's master, or Omen himself.

Im guessing that UrSylph is Omens master and Omen helped the elements trap UrSylph underneath the island and thats why Omen doesn't want you talking to him. On a side note... If fire is the south totem and water is the west toem, ect. then what if Omen is the center totem, or is that reserved for humans?

I'm pretty sure Omen is an undine, the west, the water. I think humans are the center. UrSylph is probably not Omen's master since he's a sylph of air, and Omen's master must be completely undine, or a artificialy made undine, like Tavara might be, and I think that the undines betrayed the sylphs, or at least that's what UrSylph said, saying that all the elements betrayed the sylphs. Currently, I'm sticking with Pelagon impersonator being Omen's master.

I don't think humans are the center element. Everyone's complaining about humans messing up the balance; if they were in the center they wouldn't effect the balance at all o.0 Unless the other elements are only afraid of the humans leaning one way or another. . .

BreadWorldMercy453, on Apr 30 2006, 11:46 AM, said:

Exactly, the humans are in the center which means every element wants the humans to swing "their" way. Especially Omen.

Something seems slightly different between Omen and the undines. It's like Omen has his own plans or something, and seems less cruel. It's ironic how Omen says you are Alaric's puppet, when you're actually Omen's puppet.

Actually, is it possible Tavara is an undine, and is Omen's master, and was shapeshifting into a human? Maybe that could explain Omen's differences from the Undine?

Theoretically, Tavara could be anything. MAybe Tavara is Pelagon impersonator and Omen's master. But then who is the lich? Maybe that Tyrant guy?

BreadWorldMercy453, on Apr 30 2006, 07:46 AM, said:

But don't the Seldanes want the ballance to be restored, not to swing their way?

This post has been edited by Buzzzzy: 15 May 2006 - 03:44 PM

Hold on, Tavara has to be in the stronghold, unless UrSylph was talking about some Tyrant member.

I like that theory. It makes since.

Which theory?

I was referring to Tavara is the "lich" in the stronghold. I am not sure, though. What about Tavara not being alive?

I'm pretty sure Tavara is alive, especially if he's an undine or some other creature like that. But I honestly can't believe that if Cythera was ever finished Tavara would not play a much bigger role. Otherwise it seems he has no purpose other than backstory. Hmmm...I'll try to compose a tree like thing about if Tavara is what then what sometime. For right now, we wonder.

And Tavara was the head of the "inner brotherhood" which could easily be the strongholds, so...it seems the second stronghold lich being Tavara makes the most sence. But then Tavara being Omen's master must be abandoned, because Pelagon impersonator is the one who gloats when you use the corrupted crolna on Alaric. But then again, the other liches could be Tavara's followers, which makes more sence, but some random undine being Omen's master does not. Maybe Omen is Pelagon impersonator, and Omen is his own master, so in other words, he has no master. Maybe Tavara abandoned the Temple and the Maze/Test, which was possibly taken over by the undines.

If that many theories are going to exist about Tavara, then let's asume Tavara could be a seldane. Or a unicorn, for that matter.

I can't find it at the moment, but Mr. Somebody wrote a very good chronicle that gives, what I think, is a fairly accurate picture of Tavara.

Quote

This is the view to which I subscribe. I think that Tavara was a mage corrupted by the undine and founder of the Cult of Scylla. Most likely, the Cult was somehow supposed to help the undine in their quest. Quite probably, he and the undine had some sort of disagreement.

On the subject of Omen, I believe that his master is not really seen in the game (i.e. I don't believe that the Pelagon impersonator is his master) and is probably some sort of leader (if not the leader) among the undine.

Maybe Omen has no master...

Maybe Tavara is Omen's master. What if Magpie is Omen's master?

It is unlikely that Magpie is Omen's master. Magpie, I think I heard somewhere, is Alaric's father, and also acts heavily as his guide and mentor. Mapgie was the one who convinced Alaric to summon you to Cythera, which he was unlikely to do if he was Omen's master. Without your intervention, after all, Alaric's grip on the Land would have slipped, and Omen could have found a far more gullible person to gather the parts of the Crolna, if that is what he required.

Exactly, and that's why Alaric never dies even though his mother died. Also, unless Tavara is in two places at once, I am now doubting that Tavara is Omen's master. Why would Pelagon impersonator be talking at the end instead of Omen or Tavara? Of course then again, maybe Tavara is Omen's master, and Omen is Pelagon impersonator. Actually, that makes some sence.

This may sound slightly off-topic, but does anyone remember if you could talk to the fire elemental in the cave in the mountains? And if so, did it say anything at all pertinent to this discussion (kinda the way UrSylph does?), or anything useful at all?

Back on-topic, I don't remember why, but I got the definite impression that the Pelagon imposter was an undine (not sure about him/it being Omen's master). Omen always seemed, to me, to be a sort of "free agent," not exactly an elemental, but sort of in the service of the undine, which could mean that the Pelagon imposter really IS Omen's master, or at least, a higher agent than Omen in the service of an unseen undine master.

I like the idea of Tavara, having formed an alliance or agreement of sorts with the undine, and to that effect establishing the Cult of the Scylla, betrayed them afterwards (after getting what he wanted from them, so possibly the undine "essence" or something mentioned earlier), but I'm not really sure if his tale has anything to do with the crolna and the greater elemental struggle, apart from having joined with the undine. In fact, his alliance with the undine may have had nothing to do with the elemental conflict, but rather with the undine movement to conquer the "middle" (humans, as it has been conjectured). After betraying them, their retaliation, perhaps, was to turn him into a lich? After the Cult of the Scylla was overrun and his power/influence shattered?

Btw, I don't remember much of this, but I recall reading a book (in-game) mentioning a Chimaera or something like that. Any info? (as an aside, there's a lot of stuff in the books that could be analyzed)

And up until reading this thread, I didn't know you could use the tainted crolna on Alaric, lol

Koth

Edit 1: Added something incorrect
Edit 2: Removed it

This post has been edited by Kothliim: 07 June 2006 - 04:20 PM

For conversations with Ignae, see the Cythera Dialogue archive, under Other => Ignae.

Thanks Pallas

Sweet. Cythera dialogue. Thanks!

I believe the Chimaera thing was either in an Aloiphos book, or History of Kythera. I'm sure however that it was in Pnyx's main library.

Also, maybe Tavara turned himself into a lich. Maybe the Undine somehow removed the essence, and Tavara turned into a lich to stay immortal. Wild theory.