Undine

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Undine

#1 Buzzzzy

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 07:02 PM

Just wondering, who are the Undine? I have a guess, the Hydras, Scyllas, and Polyps, but I'm not sure... Possibly liches? No, I don't think so. And how do people know the lich who doesn't attack you in the stronghold is Tavara? And where is his journal? Is that what says it?

#2 ~vIsitor~

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 12:43 AM

The Undine are the Elementals of Water, their totem direction is the west. They are the sworn enemies of the Seldane, the Elementals of Earth (whose totem direction is the east). 120 eternities ago, they drove the Seldane from their land-based seats of power in the north (the Land King Hall), the South (Maayti, in the southern swamps of Khalkis), and the West (the unnamed now-ruined city at the biggining of the river Tirynth) when they somehow breached the balance between earth and sea (a phenomenon none of the other Elementals can explain, seemingly). The Scylla are their servants, being of the sea, and so are the undead, a result of the Undine's controll over time. It has long been known that the traito-mage Tavara is that lich, as we have conjectured by his journal in the bookcase in the other stronghold and the testimony of UrSylph in his prison.

Nice sig, btw.

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#3 Buzzzzy

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 06:16 PM

Can you find them?

#4 ~vIsitor~

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 11:51 PM

The only Undine you can 'see' in-game are the everywhere-yet-nowhere Omen, and his master, who is impersonating Pelagon. Also, Magpie is half Undine, half Seldane (Seldine) and another has Undine blood in his/her veins (I won't mention who, you'll have to figure this out yourself!)

However, since the Undine can shapeshift just about anyone could concevably be Undine (Pelagon is the principle example of this, especially considerring the Opheltius Murder).

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#5 Seldane

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 11:11 AM

~vIsitor~, on Dec 29 2005, 04:51 PM, said:

...and another has Undine blood in his/her veins (I won't mention who, you'll have to figure this out yourself!)

I don't remember any of this. Could you tell me what you mean by that? It sounds very interesting. I have a few theories but I want to know what you have in mind.

#6 ~vIsitor~

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 01:33 PM

I can't just go posting about it all willy-nilly. that would spoil a major plot-point. I will say, however, that Magpie might have something to say if you ask him the right questions, but his response will leave more questions than answers. If you finish the game, you should figure it out.

Oh, and I almost forgot, The Ka (or ghost/memory) of Jerai can be visted in-game. Jerai was/is Undine, although an outcast for loving the Seldane Jhiaxus.

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#7 Seldane

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 10:37 AM

~vIsitor~, on Dec 30 2005, 06:33 AM, said:

I have finished the game, but I still can't really think of who you mean, nor do I want to post my theories here.

That ghost of Jerai, is it the ghost in those ruins to the southwest (near the shore)?

#8 ~vIsitor~

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Posted 01 January 2006 - 06:06 PM

No, you are thinking of the ghosts of the (former) inhabitants of Abydos. Jenrai appears like Omen does, in a vision, after doing something very specific in Land's End.

As for finishing the game, are you sure you finished it the 'right' way? There are two possible conculsions, but only one would reveal this.

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#9 Buzzzzy

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 02:36 PM

Is there any way to find out that person with undine blood without completing the game? And also, Joppa certainly seems like an undine. He looks kind of weird and what esle explains the Larisa dissapearence? By the way, does Pelagon impersonator/Omen's master have a true name? And why does he give you the fourth crolna shard after you say he has to use force? I haven't gotten that far in the game, though I'm getting there. If only I could get past those Polyps and get the Sword of Heroes... Lastly, isn't it "Jinrai"?

#10 Seldane

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 05:25 PM

Buzzzzy, on Jan 2 2006, 07:36 AM, said:

Oh yes I have finished the game in two different ways. One of them consists of using the fourth piece of the Crolna in the wrong way. The other way is to use it the right way. And I remember the ghost in Land's End now.

#11 SuperNova

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 06:42 PM

Buzzzzy, on Dec 26 2005, 04:02 PM, said:

And how do people know the lich who doesn't attack you in the stronghold is Tavara? And where is his journal? Is that what says it?

As far as I can remember, Tavara ruled Abydos and was also the founder of the Cult of Scylla; he was the leader of the six mages who governed the cult. There are also six seats in the meeting room in the first stronghold that seem to indicate that it is the secondary HQ for them, and there are a few books and notes in the Cult's HQ and the first stronghold that help connect the various plot holes surrounding the whole Cult incident. His journal should be somewhere in the first stronghold, it states that he served and betrayed the Undine to his own ends. This casts doubt on the theory of the Scylla being Undine, as they are in the second stronghold, unless they happen to be a devolved or half-breed race of the Undine that can be controlled by people who have served the Undine at some point.

#12 Buzzzzy

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 06:45 PM

I'll try to complete the game to find out the person with undine blood (Alaric maybe?) now that I have the Sword of Heroes (I tricked the Polyps), but

Buzzzzy, on Jan 2 2006, 11:36 AM, said:

Does Pelagon impersonator/Omen's master have a true name? And why does he give you the fourth crolna shard after you say he has to use force?

I guess I could just complete the game, but I really want to know.

And, once again, how does everybody know that the lich in the dissapearing stronghold is Tavara? His journal doesn't say anything about lches, if I read it correctly.

#13 ~vIsitor~

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 03:24 PM

Know-one short of Glen Andreas knows the true name of Omen's Master.

We know that the lich in the second stronghold is Tavara by conjecture. UrSylph said that the traitor (Tavara) 'still waits in his strongholds for a death that will never come'. On top of that, the bookcase in the first stronghold houses Tavara's Journal. The final blow is that the Lich in the second stronghold doesn't react to you at all, despite obviously being the head-honcho of the place. Its almost as if it wants you to destroy it.

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#14 Buzzzzy

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Posted 06 January 2006 - 02:37 PM

Okay, I could kind of guess that lich was Tavara also. But why doesn't Omen complain about completing "Find Opheltius's Murder Weapon", but his master kills you? And why does his master give you the fourth crolna shard after you say he has to use force? I've got the the three other crolna shards, got the panpipes, opened the secret door in Kosha, but I guess I'm just lazy. More importantly, however, can someone give the dialog of the final conversation after curing Alaric? I can just take constant pictures of it, when I complete the game, I guess, but once again, I guess I'm just lazy.

#15 cache22

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Posted 07 January 2006 - 04:04 AM

As I recall, you don't find out anything about Omen's master until the end, so whoever you're thinking of as Omen's master, that ain't him.

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#16 Buzzzzy

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Posted 07 January 2006 - 05:33 PM

cache22, on Jan 7 2006, 01:04 AM, said:

As I recall, you don't find out anything about Omen's master until the end, so whoever you're thinking of as Omen's master, that ain't him.

I found out his master through here. I have, however, completed the game (which I did today), but I guessed that Pelagon impersonator/Undine guy in grotto is Omen's master much before that. In fact, I thought that was him just after I met Stentor. However, before Stentor, I thought it was Darius. Then I met Myus, and thought it was him. Then I met Stentor. But never mind the questions, I got the answers now that I completed the game. However, this question still remains: Why doesn't Omen complain about completing "Find Opheltius's Murder Weapon", but his master kills you when you complete it?

#17 Selax

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Posted 07 January 2006 - 06:01 PM

Quote

And why does his master give you the fourth crolna shard after you say he has to use force?

Because I've haven't played Cythera in quite a while, I'm not entirely sure. Does he mention something about you being worthy after this? Maybe, he is testing you.

I'm also inclined to disagree with Pelagon being Omen's master. I don't think one actually meets Omen's master in person; the closest one comes would be the letters in the beginning or his presence in the Crolna. I think Pelagon is just another undine.

Quote

However, this question still remains: Why doesn't Omen complain about completing "Find Opheltius's Murder Weapon", but his master kills you when you complete it?

I'm puzzled. What exactly happens when you complete the quest? Who tries to kill you?

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#18 ~vIsitor~

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 06:08 PM

Opheltius' Murder was a task the Comana brothers had Pelagon perform for their own scheming political interests (namely, remove the presence of Nicander and Strymon and further weaken Attis). When you, the player, uncover the truth about the murder the Undine's presence is suspected, if not exposed. The Comana brothers return to Kosha were, much to their suprise, they are murdered side-be-side by Pelagon in the Grotto they had used as a Kesh Lab (look for blood on the ground).

It seems likely that Omen kept his mouth shut because he wanted it to look like the Undine were the 'good guys' who just crushed the traitorous Comanians. However, fearful that you might cause further harm to their plans, Pelagon will only let you live if he is absolutely sure that you plan to use the (tainted) Crolna on Alaric--securing their ultimate victory.

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#19 cache22

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 02:01 AM

Buzzzzy, on Jan 8 2006, 10:33 AM, said:

That's not Omen's master.

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#20 ~vIsitor~

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 12:02 AM

Whilst it is possible that Pelagon is merely an agent, there are quite a few conincidences that would suggest otherwise.

Pelagon handled the fourth shard of the Crolna, a not-insignificant charge (so it would be safe to assume that Pelagon is an Undine of some status). And, Pelagon vanishes when he gives you the Crolna shard, and is not seen again unless you use the tainted Crolna on Alaric. But why would Pelagon be gloating? Why not Omen? Where did Pelagon hide when he gave you the shard?

It would make the most sense that Pelagon 'entered' the crolna as he gave it to you, and posesses Alaric if you use it on him while it is still tainted. When you purify the Crolna, Omen is greatly distressed, saying you 'killed his master' and somesuch, and Pelagon is not seen when you use the purified Crolna on Alaric.

Therefore Omens Master, the entity that briefly inhabited the Crolna, is most likely Pelagon.

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#21 Selax

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 01:00 AM

Quote

And, Pelagon vanishes when he gives you the Crolna shard, and is not seen again unless you use the tainted Crolna on Alaric.

Hmm...having never used the tainted Crolna on Alaric, I was unaware of this. Still, I'm more inclined to believe that Pelagon was an agent and that Omen's master was inside at least one shard of the Crolna from the time that you first found it. I guess no one really knows for sure except gandreas...

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#22 Buzzzzy

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 01:58 PM

It seems logical that Pelagon is Omen's master. But why are the undine so...well, evil? I know they're not really evil, but still...I mean they kill Jinrai for marrying Sabinate's son, while all Sabinate does is says he has no son. Lastly, why is Magpie Alaric's fool?

#23 Buzzzzy

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 06:05 PM

Another few questions, how come the hydra in the cove, and the hydra in the Scylla Temple stand still, but the one in Maayti keeps moving around? And how come they don't attack you unless you attack them, but the one in Maayti always attacks you? Lastly, what does the last riddle button in Maayti do?

EDIT: Just found out what the riddle button does. And the hydras DO attack you if you step on their tentacles. But why it moves...and why are the tentacles so strong, but the polyp inside is just as strong as a polyp?

This post has been edited by Buzzzzy: 23 January 2006 - 03:51 PM

#24 Buzzzzy

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 04:01 PM

Sorry for the 3 posts in a row, but how come the scyllas north of LandKing Hall never attacked me before, but ever since I got the sword of heroes, they started attacking me? I was too strong for them to kill me, but they kept killing Aethon, who is very weak, and not trained in combat. It's very annoying. Is it because of the sword of heroes ore something? Or did I just get lucky before?