Ambrosia Software Web Board: Liberal - Ambrosia Software Web Board

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Um really? You would rob a bank just because you would profit from the stolen goods?

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Jews are subhuman, according to them.

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To the Nazis, the slaughter was acceptable. To the rest of the world, it wasn't. But that's because there isn't a universal set of morals. Travel a few hundred miles away from a town you know well and you'll find some variations in morality (though some morals many people have in common).

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No offense meant (seriously) - What good is that?

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Precisely.

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If there was a 100% certainty that I would get away with it with a huge sum of money (enough to offset my dislike of actually doing stuff) and without harming anybody, yes I would. But since those conditions don't exist, I'm not going to rob any banks anytime soon.

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It is the theory accepted as the basis for nearly every form of modern corporate-boardroom ethical code. Most business school ethics classes teach a form of it and large corporations have used it to their advantage for years. For some nice, albeit dull, reading on the general subject, pick up John C. Maxwell's There's No Such Thing as "Business" Ethics. I just choose to apply the corporate principle to my own ethical code (thus killing the point that Maxwell wrote the book to prove, but oh well).
(edit: I realized that I really didn't answer your question with all that typing: The major benefit of my form of morality is that it paves the way for me to make huge piles of money in my professional life.)

-Pufer

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“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” -The Buddha

[This message has been edited by Pufer (edited 07-30-2004).]

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Alright-- the part about not harming anybody clears things up.

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[url="http://"http://zoxler.net"]Zoxler.net[/url]
We in the U.S. require a new shrubbery.

After further pondering, I have also come to think that morals might not have anything to with religion at all, as some of you have been saying all along. At one point before humans were as "complex" as they are today, religion probably didn't even exsist. Their moral codes were products of something that has nothing to do with religion: emotion. At the time, humans lived in tight-knit family groups; It just didn't feel right to take the life of one's brother (while it did happen, but it does still today). When they were in love they wouldn't sleep with another's wife, solely for the reason that they were loyal to their partner. This theory, I think, can be used to understand many other un-moralities.

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If a Mime dies in the streets of Paris, and there is only a goat to see it...Does any give a crap?

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Religion, in one form or another, has existed as long as civilization itself. Civilization itself is defined by it's communities (if you don't have people living with one another, there can be no civilization) and communities, in turn, are defined by their laws. Laws are nothing but morals being forced onto a population by a group. Thus, "religion" is every bit as old as a common code of morals. Nomadic bands of primitive man didn't care much for morals or civilization, much less religion.

Whether or not the first laws stemmed from religion or not is a different matter altoghether. It is very likely that this was not originally the case (irrigation concerns were almost undoubtably the reasons to make the first laws out of a sense of communal fairness, a result of "civilization" not religion), but the law and religion quickly found common ground and joined toghether very early on.

At the beginning of Western Civilization we see a bit of a reverse trend happening where laws are weakened and any organized religion quickly loses its grasp on enforcing morality. This trend hits a peak during the height of Roman power where people would (to use your examples, vec) not think anything of sleeping with another woman or royally screwing over one's own brother if it suited their purposes (truly the height of progressive thought in history). Unfortunately, the Catholic church came to power and modern morality was imposed on everyone up until today.

-Pufer

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“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” -The Buddha

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There would of course be some unneccessary process to be represented in the conference. But yes, Pagans, Wiccans, all of them would be allowed to participate. That lengty process is what would weed-out the fake religions. IE. the ones people just made up.


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" The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies."
~~Psalms 18:2-3

That was quite possibly the most ignorant thing you have ever said. All religions are made up by people. A religion is a religion either way. If all religions are represented in this ideal governmet of yours then the ones "people have made up" must be represented as well.

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If a Mime dies in the streets of Paris, and there is only a goat to see it...Does any give a crap?

a relion with a large demographic. Say, 1,000 followers.

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" The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies."
~~Psalms 18:2-3

But, even one person can't be unfairly represented.

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If a Mime dies in the streets of Paris, and there is only a goat to see it...Does any give a crap?

[This message has been edited by vecoriwen (edited 07-31-2004).]

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So in this new system, you only count if there are 1000 of you? That doesn't fly in my view.

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[url="http://"http://zoxler.net"]Zoxler.net[/url]
We in the U.S. require a new shrubbery.

ok. let 'em all come
but you gotta register, then you have to checked for security threats, and you need to show up. NO money involved.

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" The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies."
~~Psalms 18:2-3

Your idea of government sucks. Separation of Church and State makes more sense as well as it actually works.

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If a Mime dies in the streets of Paris, and there is only a goat to see it...Does any give a crap?

I have an idea. Why don't we just use our current democracy where by not recognizing a single religion as a dominant one, we allow all religions to have a voice through the candidates they vote for.

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"Its all fun and games until a rampaging robot destroys half of your city."

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I like it!! I would only try to change the electoral college system.

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We in the U.S. require a new shrubbery.

well, not all religions have a canidate. What do say to that? And Vec, maybe you should actually give an effort to make somthing better before you say someones idea sucks.


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" The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies."
~~Psalms 18:2-3

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She did-- separation of church and state

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[url="http://"http://zoxler.net"]Zoxler.net[/url]
We in the U.S. require a new shrubbery.

I thought that was the founding farthers ideas. Well, thats what democrats are good for, stealin other people's ideas. Look at Al Gore for instance, "I invented the internet." rrrriiiggghhhhttt..... Good job Vec, follow in you idols footsteps.

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" The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies."
~~Psalms 18:2-3

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You said to suggest something better-- separation of church and state is better, it does not matter that it isn't an original idea.

Please refrain from making 100% false blanket statements that insult about half of the entire United States.

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[url="http://"http://zoxler.net"]Zoxler.net[/url]
We in the U.S. require a new shrubbery.

The only person who has the power to do that is Avatara, but I doubt he'll do it. That would be an infringement on my freedom of speech.

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" The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies."
~~Psalms 18:2-3

The power to do what?

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"Its all fun and games until a rampaging robot destroys half of your city."

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I only asked you not to start throwing around insults...

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We in the U.S. require a new shrubbery.

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This is a forum hosted in a private company's server. You do not have the right to freedom of speech here except however much the administration decides to extend you that right.

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