Ambrosia Software Web Board: Liberal - Ambrosia Software Web Board

Okay people; in the left corner I want you to to juice up your rhetoric, and in the right corner it's time to galvanize your dogma.

That's right-it's time for a political discussion.

I've noticed a trend growing among the news media here in America for some time: The use of the label 'liberal' as something slanderous and with implied extremely negative social conotations. Not a huge shocker considering how divided over partisan politics in recent days.

But this trend is moving beyond the media and into the strangest places within the national lexicon. Most notabley, I was picking my nephew up from his soccer practice and he was getting into an argument wit another kid. On the closing of this argument, the other kid blurted out a string of words including "pussy", "faggot", and to my surprise, "liberal". And if that wasn't odd enough, my nephew (who is 7 years old) was the most upset about being called a liberal than the others. On the way back to my sister's/his mother's house I asked him if he knew what "liberal" meant. His reply: "it means you're gay." And appearently gay means you're a pussy, and pussy means you're... well you get the idea.

So I have to ask: What is the deal with being liberal?

[and before you ask/imply/assume anything I am a moderate]

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America is the most right-wing nation in the world, therefore to be anything less than an extreme right-winger is to be unAmerican?

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Sundered Angel,
The One and Only
Ares Webboard Moderator, and all-around Nice Guy

Liberals want people besides themselves to have rights. Conservatives don't.

Divals

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I personally haven't noticed this, but I wouldn't put it past the ignorant fools who turned gay into an insult to try and make liberal one too.

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That is very true if you are to generalize, there are exceptions of course. I think some conservatives don't realize that their views have that consequence.

as a side note, I just ordered this awesome t-shirt:
[url="http://"http://www.cafeshops.com/thewhitehouse.11578979?zoom=yes#zoom"] [/url]
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[This message has been edited by Trah (edited 07-21-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Trah (edited 07-26-2004).]

Awesome shirt

Hopefully his next defeat won't have the disastrous results that his last one did...

Maybe if he wins the election, the supreme court will give the presidency to Kerry!

Divals

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I like the "Re-elect Gore 2004" shirts better.

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As a liberal Californian, when I hear "liberal", I think compassionate and open. When I hear "conservative", I think hateful and closed-minded.

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Yep, that's basically what it means..

Divals

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I do too, they are more positive. I choose re-defeat Bush because that fits the current situation better. Re-elect Gore is asking people to write-in Gore, presumably instead of Kerry, which is almost as bad as Nader.

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Divals, is that sig from a Terry Pratchett novel? It looks like it.

Trah: I think that Nader should stop running, personally. It's his third time, i think. Enough.

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What I hate is people complaining about such partisan politics in the United States, and then turning around and harassing folks of oppossing political viewpoints, just because they disagree (Divals, Trah, Tanis Half-Halo, Stark Bledfast, etc.). If you don't like a politician, fine. Don't, however, go off spouting contrived rehtoric because he is "republican" or "democrat".

Being liberal is fine. America is a free country, and people who accuse liberals as un-American are hypocrites. If they knew the first thing about their government, they would know that the right to free speech means the right to express yourself without fear of retaliation based upon your opinions. When people are scared to say what they mean in America, the country has lost what it started out to create.

I think I covered the question pretty well, though I wanted to get a little bit more off my chest as well. My english, sadly, is getting rusty after speaking little of it for the past year, so I don't think I expressed certain words like I could have, so I hope it makes sense, and hopefully strikes something.



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I think that's the first list of hypocrites that i've been a possibility for that i'm not on.

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Hmm..I was thinking the opposite.

What's the deal people? Honestly. I don't necessarily agree with either on everything, but while you're "stuck" with Bush, why not support him while he's in office, you can't do anything about it anyway. When November comes, vote against him then. There are people in Iraq who want to be there, and who are fighting for us. Why not at least pretend to be appreciative?

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As if I weren't already enough of an idiot, let's add 200 people that are smarter than me.

So, even if you disagree with just about everything the leader of your country has done (foreign, domestic, economic, religious policies, and almost everything else) you should just pretend they're doing a fabulous job until election day in November? Or, should you point out that you think some of his decisions aren't beneficial for the country and/or are detrimental to society?

When I hear "liberal" I think of it as someone who wants a change, sometimes a drastic change from tradition, sometimes not. I think "conservative" as someone who wishes things to go back to the way they have always been, in the good old days. There are times for both, and I've yet to see either label be used as an insult.

Trah: nice T-Shirt, but I prefer the "like father, like son" slogan.

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In the end, I do agree. I understand that he wants to get his message across, but he needs to look at the big picture and realize that Kerry is much more likely to share his views then Bush, and that by running he is hurting the chances his views and ideas will become reality. If I remember correctly, Gore loss by something like 1700 votes in Florida, and Nader got around 95,000, so even if those 95000 split 55-45 Gore-Bush (I think the percent would have been much higher in favor of Gore) Gore would have won Florida, and the election. And that is why we need to switch to a preferential balloting system like they use in Australia.

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I'm not sure I understood the first section of your post.... were you accusing the listed people of attacking others solely based on political stance, or were you listing people who have different views?

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As I see it, radical liberals (John Kerry) stand for the set of ideals that are entirely contrary to those upon which this nation was founded but I see nothing wrong with this. One trait of the modern radical liberal that I do, however, find fault with is the constant beating around the bush on issues that they have a clear opinion on.

Kerry is presently running TV ads that, amongst other things, state that he is a "soldier and a hunter." It is clear to me (and, I dare say, most people) that this is a blatant attempt to appeal to moderate voters in the US by providing a loose association with both the current military and the hunters of the US. All we need to do to see that he neither cares about hunters or the military is look at his voting record in congress where we will find numerous votes to underfund the military and take the hunters' guns and rights away. I've also not seen anything that clearly states his opinion on much of anything.

The conservatives and President Bush, on the other hand, have simply come out and stated everything that they want to state. They've never run ads proclaiming that Bush once participated in an Earth Day cleanup event in an attempt to show an affinity to the environmentalists or have stated that he was good friends with someone who had an abortion even though he is solidly against it. They tend to take the road of simply and plainly stating that "We are against abortion and gay marriage but are for funding the military, fighting terrorism, and essentially maintaining the current state of things."

It's simple. Kerry should come out and state in nationwide ads that he is for underfunding the military, gay-rights, confiscating every firearm in the US without any compensation to the owners, radically higher taxes, regulating a majority of automobiles sold in this country out of existance, governmentally funded "community" programs based on socialist ideals, and ultra-powerful labor unions taking charge of industry based on political theories originally proposed by the Communist Party. I mean, what is he scared of? That people will find out that, instead of being a big hotshot soldier and hunter, he is a anti-gun, car, and military-funding socialist who loves the idea of a welfare state and an increased taxload for every American?

Yes, he is.

-Pufer

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“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” -The Buddha

Trah: I was just stating that harassment based soley upon your "party" does nothing to advance cooperation and bipartisanship. But what do I know? I'm just sixteen.

Pufer: Excellent post. While you and I don't share the same view on subjects like this, that was well-written, if a bit biased.

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Oh, I support the troops. You don't get anywhere if you don't support the troops.
I do not, however support Bush, as I think he's the worst thing that's happened to this country in years.

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John Kerry is not a radical liberal. On the scale of things, he's more of a moderate liberal. Bush and Co. are so far to the right compared to the rest of the world that it's scary.

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I don't agree with that assessment, but even so, that portrays Kerry's views in an overly negative light. Similarly, I could call Bush the pro-deficit, pro-death, anti-choice, anti-freedom, anti-environment, and for creating second class citizen president. That sounds much worse then the pro-tax cut, war, anti-abortion, pro national security, pro freedom of business, and pro "sanctity of marriage" president.

LOBF: I see your point now

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Which is exactly what they show each other as. Overly negative.

On a side note, i find it amusing that Kerry's ads now are featuring Edwards, who I'm suspecting was chosen partially for his speaking ability. Kerry has a rather dull voice and I already like his ads better now that someone else is actually talking in them. I don't like the Bush ads at all...that weird female voice is grating, and he's basically trying to negative in his ads instead of what Kerry is doing, which is, if not uplifting, at least not a game of "let's-see-how-much-we-can-downplay-the-other-candidate." He speaks about himself instead of his opponent, and I like that.

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That could be one of the most mindless posts you've ever made.

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I always find it quite touching how you guys get along so well.

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That's something that doesn't happen very often.

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I believe that you get my point, but, just to make sure, I'll restate it. I believe that Bush is, in fact, running ads that state that he is anti-gay marriage, anti-choice, etc. and coming straight out and stating his views. Kerry, on the other hand, is beating around the bush by simply referring to himself as things vaguely related to issues and not coming out and declaring his stance. I'm simply stating that Bush's campaign tactics are rather more respectable than Kerry's.

I might add, at this point, that I tried to present some of the issues where these trends are most visible in relation to Bush, not necesarily those that express my views on the issues. For everyone who hasn't followed my stances on the issues at hand, I hope that you don't think that my support for Bush during this election, necessarily denotes support for a majority of his stances (for instance, I am avidly pro-choice and pro-gay marriage, amongst a large number of other disparities between our views), it's just that he's better than the alternative.

-Pufer

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“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” -The Buddha

I agree. While I support Kerry (ABB), he's being a real pansy right now. He needs to stand up for issues and at least pretend to be strong.

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