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4th of July

#76 User is offline   Pufer 

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 10:00 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Sundered Angel:
OK, I'm willing to agree that the NRA is typecast a lot. Any organisation that big cannot be represented by a stereotype - the membership is just too diverse. Free gun safety lessons are also a good thing - provided, of course, that they're values-neutal. But that should be something with parents and education types can work out with the NRA, shouldn't it?


The Eddie Eagle program (which is the part of the gun safety initiative that deals with school age children) is, in fact, values-neutral. The program states gun safety rules (one of the "rules" taught goes something like "If you see a gun laying about in a home step away quickly and immediately go tell an adult. DO NOT TOUCH THE GUN!") matter of factly, without looking at the moral side of the gun issue. In fact if a student brings up the moral issue ("My mommie says that guns are bad and evil, is she right?") the instructors are trained to say "that is a question that you must discuss with your family, not during the class." All a school would have to do to get these classes would be to contact the local NRA representative (and yes, all instructors must go through background checks and meet minimum educational requirements).

Quote

What worries me greatly is the belligerent NRA. You know, the side which organises gun rallies in the Columbine area immediately after the shootings? Yes, I've seen Bowling for Columbine too. Interesting documentary, particularly as it ends up going nowhere. Posted Image



The incident in question was a ralley which was an annual affair and had been planned months ahead of time. There were already many members coming in from out of town/state and it couldn't be canceled without affecting these people. A press release was also released by Wayne LaPierre's (head of the NRA-ILA) office expressing condolences to the families affected by Columbine and the above facts, it also stated that if anyone didn't feel right participating in the ralley due to the incident, it would be understood. Moore and the media just conviniently left this out.

Bowling for Columbine was a film that took many statements out of context and portrayed the NRA in a very bad light (if you go into a hick town in the south what would you expect to find in the way of NRA members? Brain-surgeons? No, you'd expect to find hicks, which is what ol' fatso found and passed off as your average NRA members.). Even Handgun Control Inc. (or whatever they are calling themselves this week) has released a statement saying that "While Bowling for Columbine misrepresents rhetoric for facts and has a few inconsistancies, it is still a quality documentary which stands as a pillar for the anti-gun movement," yeah, even though the film is full of falsehoods and lies it still is a good flick because it is anti-gun, what a load of crap, but the statement does acknowledge that the movie lies, coming from the group that most avidly supports Michael Moore's ideals.

Oh yeah, Trah, I get all of my regular ammo from a Mexican importer who isn't affected by the current regulations of the US government (a box of Cor-Bon 9mm is about a third of the price from him, for the record I do this because of price, not because of his lack of regulation) so even if it was mandated that every shot cost $100 I, and many others, wouldn't be affected at all, we'd still be getting our bricks (1000 rounds) of .22LR for under ten bucks.

-Pufer


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#77 User is offline   hawk 

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 10:51 PM

I thought I'd point out in addition to other comments about Bowling for Columbine that Moore spliced together things that were said seperately, took things totally out of context, and often omitted statements that would have completely ruined the point he was trying to make. Convenient, huh? (And he calls Bush a liar, too!)

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#78 User is offline   Pufer 

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 11:22 PM

Quote

Originally posted by hawk:
I thought I'd point out in addition to other comments about Bowling for Columbine that Moore spliced together things that were said seperately, took things totally out of context, and often omitted statements that would have completely ruined the point he was trying to make. Convenient, huh? (And he calls Bush a liar, too!)



Indeed. Moore ought to be fired out of a cannon into the side of of Mt. Rushmore just because he is such a jackass about just about everything he says/does. His opinions are valid, but he presents them in such a piss-poor way that his message is completely lost.
-Pufer

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#79 User is offline   Sundered Angel 

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 05:21 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Pufer:
Indeed. Moore ought to be fired out of a cannon into the side of of Mt. Rushmore just because he is such a jackass about just about everything he says/does. His opinions are valid, but he presents them in such a piss-poor way that his message is completely lost.
-Pufer



Actually, his opinions are valid, and he presents them in a highly effective manner which conveys his message quite well. Of course, the slight issue of impartiality doesn't seem to bother him much...

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#80 User is offline   hawk 

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 09:44 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Sundered Angel:
Actually, his opinions are valid, and he presents them in a highly effective manner which conveys his message quite well. Of course, the slight issue of impartiality doesn't seem to bother him much...


I don't think impartiality exists in either American politics or American media; only different opinions...

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#81 User is offline   Trah 

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 02:40 PM

Quote

Originally posted by hawk:
(And he calls Bush a liar, too!)



What's wrong with telling the truth? (You know, they [Bush administration] knew a document was a fake, buy used it as evidence that Iraq was trying to get and make WMDs. Purposely misleading everyone, such as congress. That is a very bad lie.)

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#82 User is offline   hawk 

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 10:07 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Trah:
What's wrong with telling the truth?


Explain to me how Moore was telling the truth regarding Charton Heston and the NRA.

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#83 User is offline   Trah 

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 10:58 PM

Quote

Originally posted by hawk:
Explain to me how Moore was telling the truth regarding Charton Heston and the NRA.



I meant he was telling the truth about Bush being a liar. My stance on the gun issue is simple: Guns are bad.


EDIT: I would like to thank everyone who participated in this topic. It has been my most successful ever (most meaningful posts) Posted Image
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[This message has been edited by Trah (edited 07-15-2003).]

#84 User is offline   hawk 

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 06:46 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Trah:
I meant he was telling the truth about Bush being a liar. My stance on the gun issue is simple: Guns are bad.


My point simply was that Moore is a liar himself.

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#85 User is offline   Carinae 

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 08:31 PM

nm matter about IRA ups sorry NRA or moore, Guns are bad,
if theives knew that people did not own guns, would they then shoot them?
So a decade og cleaning the streets of guns would still help.
So what is your point, you that live in a suburb, where nobody comes to steal anything?
And crossbows should need lisences to.
Come live in the 21th century crime is compatted better with prevention, better social services, not by more Police and Death Penalty Which by the way is still a crime against humanity!

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#86 User is offline   Pufer 

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 11:33 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Carinae:
nm matter about IRA ups sorry NRA or moore, Guns are bad,
if theives knew that people did not own guns, would they then shoot them?
So a decade og cleaning the streets of guns would still help.
So what is your point, you that live in a suburb, where nobody comes to steal anything?
And crossbows should need lisences to.
Come live in the 21th century crime is compatted better with prevention, better social services, not by more Police and Death Penalty Which by the way is still a crime against humanity!



Can anyone else make any sense of this?
-Pufer

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#87 User is offline   Carinae 

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 03:20 AM

Me!

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#88 User is offline   moonunit4eva 

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 08:29 PM

Yes, please. For all our sakes.

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#89 User is offline   Carinae 

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 10:42 PM

Rant

Quote

Originally posted by Carinae:
NM.
About IRA ups sorry NRA or Michael Moore, Guns are bad,
if theives knew that people did not own guns, would they then shoot them?

A decade of cleaning the streets of guns would still help.

What's is your point, you that live in a suburb, where nobody comes to steal anything?

BTW crossbows should need lisences to.

Come live in the 21th century, crime is compatted better with prevention, better social services, not by more police or death penalty, which by the way, still is a crime against humanity!


_



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#90 User is offline   moonunit4eva 

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 09:19 PM

I'm living in the 21st century! WOO WOO!

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#91 User is offline   Trah 

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 11:01 PM

Time to stear this topic back to my original rant posted an entire 2 WEEKS (wow) ago.

I will make my point in a Dogbert sort of way.

Neener Neener Bush is a liar. He lied about evidence that made the US go to war.

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#92 User is offline   moonunit4eva 

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 12:51 AM

BUSH ROCKS.

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#93 User is offline   Azeroth 

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 01:37 AM

Bush reminds me of the hero in the Wind Waker game for Gamecube. The hero looks just like Bush when he gets tired. But somehow, I doubt that Bush ever grabbed a powerful magical sword and conductor baton and journeyed across an ocean world in an attempt to destroy an evil wizard.

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#94 User is offline   Trah 

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 03:09 PM

Quote

Originally posted by moonunit4eva:
BUSH ROCKS.




another person blinded by patriotism... Look at The Infidel's sig:

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"Why, of course the people don't want war...But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to do the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
-- Hermann Goering, WWI Pilot, Nazi General



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#95 User is offline   moonunit4eva 

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 03:29 PM

I'm not blinded by patriotism. Why wouldn't you want to support our president? It's not like Gore would have done a better job. Gore's an absolute scum bag. He would have been the next Clinton. Not to mention, Bush is going to spend his whole term cleaning up everything that everyone else had done wrong, so he's not going to be able to do any real good for the country.

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#96 User is offline   Carinae 

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 07:24 PM

Quote

Originally posted by moonunit4eva:
I'm living in the 21st century! WOO WOO!



I think not as a Human you still live in the middleages.

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#97 User is offline   moonunit4eva 

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 08:42 PM

Guess which finger I'm holding up.

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#98 User is offline   Trah 

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 10:41 PM

Quote

Originally posted by moonunit4eva:
I'm not blinded by patriotism. Why wouldn't you want to support our president? It's not like Gore would have done a better job. Gore's an absolute scum bag. He would have been the next Clinton.


And so the topic comes full circle.

I won't support a president I feel is slowly destroying the Uninted States. Gore would have been better, notice how more people voted for him. Clinton was better then Bush. His lie was irrelevent, while Bush lied to get us into war.

Quote


Not to mention, Bush is going to spend his whole term cleaning up everything that everyone else had done wrong, so...


Ack. Just ack. I wish Deep Blue was here. He would make a great comment.
Back in the good 'ol days (before 2000) the US economy was high, the world liked us, we weren't in war. Supreme cout gives Bush the win. Economy plumits, his feeble attempts to stimulate it fail. 9/11. The world is behind us. Afganhistan goes fairly well. World still mostly supports us. Iraq. Majority of the world doesn't agree with us. Bush goes to the UN. Doesn't get what he wants. Says "screw you, we're going in anyway." World goes from support to hate. It is found that Bush lied about certain claims that got us to war. Where to now? Another un-just war in Iran or Korean?

Quote


he's not going to be able to do any real good for the country.


We agree there!


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#99 User is offline   Azeroth 

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 10:56 PM

I'm not going to jump into either side of this ugly little debate, but I just want to comment that you don't know what would have happened if we had not gone into Iraq, because you can never be absolutely sure about what they did or did not have.

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#100 User is offline   Trah 

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 11:27 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Azeroth:
I'm not going to jump into either side of this ugly little debate, but I just want to comment that you don't know what would have happened if we had not gone into Iraq, because you can never be absolutely sure about what they did or did not have.



That is part of the problem. As of yet, we have no evidence of WMDs in Iraq. Bush said they had clear evidence they did, but where are they? I know it hasn't been that long, but I would have thought a little bit of evidence would be found.

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