Ambrosia Software Web Board: Dialogical scheming - Ambrosia Software Web Board

Can you do a dynamic tree? Kind of like the Ancestry.com model where it shows nearby connections and a general overview for skipping around?

Course, that's putting a lot of effort into a dialogue page.

I'm no help at all with web design stuff, but my only idea of a simple-ish solution would be to separate out generic prompts from character-specific prompts. So we could have a list of generic prompts and say it applies to everyone except <list of characters>, and a list of Cademian prompts that apply to <list of characters>, a list of mage prompts, etc. It might make it a little easier to find the prompts that are actually interesting, but I don't know. I can't really complain about the current setup - it's how I arranged the files, after all.

Here's my attempt: Dialogos.

It presents a tree on the left for navigation, but it's mostly not really a tree. You can filter to "Mages in Cademia" even though there's no relationship between those two traits.

If you pick a character, it shows the responses along with their source, and it hides responses that are overridden by more specific ones (e.g. look at how Anisa, Berossus, Hadrian, and Lindus respond differently to "Alaric").

Wowev, I forgot that I never replied to this. Fiery, that dialogue page looks very nice! Unfortunately, I can't get it to load at all in Safari, but it worked in Firefox. It's a really cool page!

Unrelated, one more random prompt I discovered: Laodice responds to "food" with "You'll have to go to the pub and talk to Areithous about that."

I'll mention that to Wizard when I get a chance, but I don't know if he'll get around to adding it. I'm not even certain that he has gotten around to moving his site yet.

I doubt he'll get around to it, I don't think he ever added the prompts I posted in May, and his website is still on Kansas University :P

Here's another prompt I came across: Eioneus responds to "lava" with "Only the heat of lava is enough to magically improve an edge." and to "obsidian" with "Obsidian is the perfect source of a razor sharp edge, and with it's (its) alchemical properties, it is a perfect element."

You are probably correct, but I'll make the effort anyway. I'm trying to get him to come by irc once in awhile as well, although it's probably a lost cause.

Well, he certainly doesn't have the excuse of having to reset his password to access #cythera, right? He probably thinks he's too busy with grad school to hang out with us :[

Actually, I spoke with him and he had a good reason for not moving his site over just yet. It should still be available until December or February. By this time, I hope we'll have worked something out and be able to move it elsewhere.

That's not super encouraging, especially if we're depending on Wizzy to do something within the next two months o_O However, I'm glad that it's not something he's completely forgotten about. Your website rocks, Wizzy! ^_^

I'll attempt to convince him to do something over Christmas Break, and we'll see what happens.

Sely & Bryce, are you guys saving the dialogue that you're decrypting somewhere? I'm really excited to learn about all the bits of dialogue that I didn't find ^_^ (For example, how everyone in Odemia hates you if let Ariadne die. That's cool!)

BreadWorldMercy453, on 09 January 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

I can send you dumps of the strings from the character dialogue resources (18xx, etc) if you want to go through them, but the dialogue format proper is not well-understood by us at this point (it's almost certainly actually a compiled scripting-language program). You can go through it manually if you like; I have no idea how long it will take us to work out the scripting system. Probably quite a while.

Thank you for the string-dump, Bryce! ^_^

I found lots of minor things (like secondly prompts that give the same response as ones I found, and other boring stuff), but here's the dialogue pieces that I found interesting (including the ones that Sely already found. Also, I haven't tested out any of these yet):

jobs
"Aye, now there's a dangerous savior."
(No idea what that means, will need to test it)

sobe
"Healthy Refreshment - Drain the Lizard!"
(maybe a generic prompt? I googled it, and it looks like Sobe is a brand of vitamin waters & energy drinks, with a lizard mascot)

dim,light
"It's not as bright in LandKing hall as it used to be."
(seems to be a generic LKH prompt)

enem
"Those who are one of us, but not of us they are."
"As the Sea and the Earth are one, but not."
(looks like Sabinate or seldane dialogue)

Kenny
Oh my god! They killed Kenny! You bastards!
(No idea)

"Despite your lack of magical abilities, the scrolls will still be useful to you."
"Though your magical powers are weak, a visit to the Magisterium in Pnyx will bring them out to their fullest."
"You should visit the Magisterium in Pnyx to learn to use your magical powers."
"You've got a knack for magic - a trip to the Magisterium in Pnyx will be worthwhile."
(It looks like Alaric's dialogue at the end of the first conversation differs slightly depending on your character class. Come to think of it, I remember Shorty mentioning that before; but my dialogue file only has the "You should visit the Magisterium in Pnyx to learn to use your magical powers" version)

For Alaric (maybe if your Karma is bad?):
Help: "I'm sorry, but your soul is too stained for me to be able to cleanse it."

For Magpie:
Hist: "History is everywhere, but nobody asks a rock its history."
"The history of Magpie, now there's a @story, but the history of Alaric, now that's a @tale."
Tale: "The tale of Alaric? His story is history!"
*Alaric laughs and capers as if he has told the best joke ever invented.*
"Alaric it was that destroyed the rule of the Tyrants, and brought the Mages back from exile."
"He it was that set up government as it stands today. But none know how he gained the power to do this feat."
"Or at least, none will say. None is no one. And no one is not one. And not one is two."
*Alaric again beams with delight.*
Thre: "Jhaixus is one. Jinrai is one."
"Bahoudin is two. Chrysothemis is one."
"Alaric is three."
(No idea how to get that "three" response instead of "Ah, three, now that is important, but you are not ready for that knowlege.")
Chry: "Mother of Alaric is that one."
(I thought I asked him that & got no response, so I'm unsure how to get that)
Crol: "Sabinate is right perhaps, but one can be wrong when one is right."
"Magpie fears it is last best hope for Alaric - great is the risk."
(Again, I don't know how to get that instead of the other Crolna response)
Sabi: "Not all visions see deep to the truth of what is, and what must never be."
(I'm guessing the same thing will activate all these prompts...)
Baho: "An old name, not used anymore."
Jhia: "Many people have many motives, not all bode well."
Jinr: "People of Jinrai are dangerous - very much so."
"Remember well that the dead do not walk."

For Hadrian:
Son/Hect: "How's my son doing? Is he serving you with honor?"
(You:)"I regret to tell you that Hector has died in my service. I am truly sorry."
*Hadrian seems choked up, and unable to speak for a moment.*
"Thank you for telling me. We all knew the risks involved."*"A warrior can know no better death than to die for a cause that is right and just."
Eion: "I remember him - a bright young mage who was working on magically enhancing weapons."
"I haven't seen him for years now, I wonder how he's doing... He might be worth tracking down."

For Emesa:
Perm: "You'll have to talk to Hadrian about that."
(Maybe "permission" for Hector to join me? At first I thought maybe Hadrian would perm my hair, but I found that unlikely.)

For Hector:
Hono: "Without honor, there is no meaning to life. Most citizens of Cythera value honor highly, but myself more so than most."

For Naxos:
Wine: "Yes, House Comana has gotten into the wine trade - I expect it to be quite lucrative."
Glau: "I'm not a big fan of Glaucus' wine - Northshore Vineyards doesn't quite cut it for me."
Boru: "Now Borus, there's a master wine maker if ever there was one..."
Note: "And which note would this be?"
*You show him the note you found on Eudoxus.*
"That's interesting, but what are you insinuating here?"
"If you are going to forge a note to incriminate me, the least you could do is spell my name out!"
Eudo/Anti: "Never heard of him."
Cana: "Yes, our dear departed father. The world will miss him."

For Malis:
Ghos/Prob: "You will need to talk to my Mother about that - I have no comment."
Worr: "She says I shouldn't worry, that everything always works out well, but still, such is my nature."

Greeting for Philinus (presumably if you let Ariadne die & bring the body to Odemia):
"No! It can't be! Why!"
*You hand the body to the grieving man, obviously her husband Philinus.
"Please, I would like to be alone."
(It looks like maybe he will just say "Please, I would like to be alone" at every attempt to converse with him after that, which would make it impossible to get the pan-pipes...)

Another possible Philinus-response to "Tlep": "It is good to talk to him again - thank you for re-uniting old friends."

For Opheltius:
Aria: "Wait! You must be that incompetant twit responsible for botching my mother's rescue."
"You cost her her life! Begone - I will have naught to do with such scoundrels."

For Ascalon:
(greeting?:) "You have my distain, you incompetant twit."
Aria: "It is a crime what you let happen to my Mother. You are no better than those bandits."
(+ possibly:) , but did you hear that the bandit in @jail died?"
Capt: "Capture! Ha!"
(or:) "The captured bandit is in @jail."
(or:) "The captured bandit is dead."
Jail: "Jail is where you belong."
(or:) "The jail is in the south east - you'll need to talk to to the city guard."
(or:) "Maybe you had a hand in the death in the jail - no matter, he was foul bandit scum - probably working for @Strymon"
(for "bye"?:) "Very well. You are not welcome here anyway."
(Or:) "Very well, come visit me again."

For Tlepolemus:
Pan/Panp/Pipe: "I hope you enjoyed them - I wasn't getting any use out of them."
(I don't think it's possible to actually get that in the game, since he never sells you his pipes)

For Eteocles:
Kesh: "Yeah, we heard of da stuff. It's effects could be quite useful, in catching 'rats' and all."
"But it seems da stuff is addictive, and fatal in the long run. Wouldn't want to mess with it."
(Or?:) "Youse is awful nosy."
Weap: "Hm, perhaps it was ditched into the sewers. You should find @Dryas - he's one of my best sewer-rats."
"If it made it to the sewers, he'll find it."
(or:) "I hears they never found the murder weapon."
(or:) "They never did find it, did they?"
(or:) "This is not a place to get weapons."
Mach: "That's an annoying name in the history of da Guild, let me tell you."
"You'd think that if anybody knew where his secret hideouts were, we'd know."
"But that just ain't the way it is - and dats a personal insult to da Guild."
(or:) "We don't talk about certain things to non-members."

For Halos:
Frie: "I have many friends - and many enemies."
Enem: "I'm certainly not on good terms with House Comana, but who is?"
Note: "What note would that be?"
*You show Halos the note that you found on Eudoxus.*
"Interesting, but it proves very little - it doesn't even say who it was to other than 'D'."
"Still, this is most interesting - let me keep this and do some research..."
*Halos takes the note.*
(I already learned about that prompt from Sely's youtube playthrough, but still haven't updated my dialogue files)
Aeth: "I've heard of him - it is my business to know such things."

For Sacas:
(Initial greeting if you let Ariadne die:) "So you're the one Alaric said was coming - but I had hoped for better."
(Your response when she asks you where you saw kesh before (maybe if you didn't find it on the dead ruffian in LKH?):)"I found some on the band leader himself."
(her:) "Not surprising - but where did he get it from, I wonder. Thanks for the infomation, though."
Immu: "It is strange that he should be able to resist the spells, and he's surely not going to talk to @Thersites."
"Perhaps you could help? He's bound to know that you failed to rescued Ariadne - perhaps he might slip up if you talk to him?"
Nica: "Nicander is the ruling House here in Odemia. Elder Philinus is nice enough, and you've met his wife Ariadne."*"Their younger son, Ascalon, well, let's say I'm glad that his older brother Opheltius will inherit."
(Peirithous:) "If you ask me, he's a spoiled, dimwitted, brat, he is!"
(Sacas:) "Please, Peirithous, be civil."
(Peirithous:) "Very well ma'am. I'm sorry for interrupting."

Possible responses to using "ask about" on the Crolna for Timon:
"It is some sort of glowing, triangular crystal."
"It is some sort of glowing, triangular crystal, obviously made of several pieces joined together to form something more potent."
"It looks like a fragment of a larger object. The exact nature of it is a mystery to me, but it must have something to do with the Metics."

Looks like the initial Timon greeting if you get Lindus' directions, but show up without the Crolna:
"Ah, you must be the one that Lindus sent! I am Timon"
"That's odd, I was told that you would have a glowing green @crystal"
"Perhaps you are not who I was waiting for..."

For Lindus:
Kesh: "I don't know what you're talking about."
(or:) "Sacas is in charge of investigating that. You should travel to Odemia and report to her directly."
(or:) "Yes, I heard. A spy using that nasty kesh stuff - this does not bode well."
(or:) "Our magical powers would easily detect spies involved in any matter of state."
Magp/fool: "In truth, I don't trust him - I know that Alaric often turns to him for council, but I still get a funny feeling about him."

For Palaestra:
Sour: "Wine will turn sour if it goes bad."
(you:) "Could Alchemy make it turn bad?"*
(her:) "I doubt it - but you might want to ask @Charax - I understand he even makes his own wine."
Kesh: "I don't know what you're talking about."
(or:) "Hm, yes, I see you've heard of it. Well, my analysis shows a number of interesting things."
"It appears to be addictive and probably, in the long run, fatal."
"It also appears to alter the magic flux of a person - to what extent, we don't know."

For Helen:
Stud: "Students make up the bulk of my patrons - they're fun, but cheap."

Antiphus greeting:
"Oooh, you must be the big hero who failed to rescue Ariadne."

Peirithous dialogue (remember, Peirithous is Sacas' majordomo who is not actually in the game)
(Greeting:) *You see a dour faced man of middle age.*
Good (morning/evening?), ma'am/sir.
Name: "I am called Peirithous."
Job: "I am the majordomo of Judge Sacas."
Peir: "Yes? What can I do for you?"
Saca: "Judge Sacas is an honorable person."
(Not recognized prompt:) "I'm sorry, but that is not for me to gossip about."
Bye: "Very well - I have work to do."

For Aethon:
Kesh: "I've heard of it, but not much more than that - I'd ask Guildmaster Eteocles."

For Dryas:
Leav: "No! The shapechanger will get me!"

Greetings for the Odemia gate guard:
"Did you hear? The brigand prisoner was found dead!"
"Sad tiding, it is."
(or:)"No! It can't be! What happened?"
(you:) "She was slain in battle with bandits."
(him:) At least you tried. This news is sad - you should take the body to Philinus"

For Thersites:
(greeting:) "At last we meet - I am Thersites, the Captain of the Guard here in Odemia."
"It is a shame what happened to Ariadne."
Kidn/Aria: "I can't say that @Antiphus didn't deserve death, but only after due process."
(or:) "Nasty business, that. Rest assured, @Antiphus shall pay!"

For Glaucus:
Viny: "This years crop looks good, but I don't know if I'll be able to make @wine..."
(No wonder he didn't respond to "vineyard" -_-)
Bree/air: "Now that you mention it, I don't remember a breeze so much as the smell, but I can't be sure."
"Of course, the sea breeze usually comes in at night."

For Demodocus:
Parr: "Parrots? I'm afraid you're confused - too much time in the sun."
(Huh?)

Seldane greetings, maybe if you have bad karma?:
Sabinate: "No - your ways are not pure. You're very presense offends us. Be gone."
Unhayt: "You have stopped the flow of water. Be gone."
Seqedher: "Your ears are shut to the words of the truth. Be gone."
Uset: "Your heart has been weighted and found wanting. Be gone."

For Sabinate:
Form/Shap: "As the Sea flows, so does the shape of those of the Sea. Changeable, yet still of the Sea."
(or:) "That knowlege is beyond you."

Ignae greeting:
"Greetings human! It is not often one of your kind gets to meet me."*"I am called Ignae, and you, you are special, you are not like the rest of the human, eh?"
(Someone else?:) "This surely looks like some sort of demon - we must be cautious!"
"Be at ease, mortal. Though you dabble in what you call magic, you know me not."
"I have as much in common with what you call a demon as you do with a rock, yes - that's it."
"I am also called Ignae of the @South, for that is my place, though I'm obviously not there now."
"But now you, you are @unique, are you not? Not like @Alaric is unique, that is for sure."
(That bit about demons is new to be. Maybe Timon cuts in? Maybe it comes up if you fought demons before talking to Ignae?)

For UrSlyph:
Peop: "Our people have all fallen, and are lesser than we once were."

This post has been edited by BreadWorldMercy453: 10 January 2015 - 05:36 PM

BreadWorldMercy453, on 10 January 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

This probably refers to Steve Jobs. When he took the helm at Apple, which was nearly bankrupt at the time, he did a lot of things that seemed radical and dangerous, like killing off the Mac clones. Not all of them were immediate, obvious successes like the iMac. All this was going on when Cythera was in development (very late 90s), and it was a pretty common opinion at the time.

I'll mention the extra dialogue to Wizard, but I wouldn't get my hopes up in regards to his adding it to his site.

I'm working on testing the new dialogue bits I found in the string dump, and revising the dialogue files to be more complete. I'm not done yet, but I'm already stumped on some of them. Am I not doing the right thing to activate these dialogues, or is it a bug in the game preventing it? Here's the ones I can't figure out so far:

(Hadrian)
Son/Hect: "How's my son doing? Is he serving you with honor?"
Player: "I regret to tell you that Hector has died in my service. I am truly sorry."
*Hadrian seems choked up, and unable to speak for a moment.*
"Thank you for telling me. We all knew the risks involved."
"A warrior can know no better death than to die for a cause that is right and just."
(I tried sending Hector after a Scylla (I felt a little bad, but...), then bringing his cadaver to Hadrian, but when he asked me if Hector was serving me with honor, I just said yes, & he should be proud. I can't figure out how to tell Hadrian that Hector died.)

(Timon)
(greeting) "Ah, you must be the one that Lindus sent! I am Timon"
"That's odd, I was told that you would have a glowing green @crystal"
"Perhaps you are not who I was waiting for..."
(Even when I show up without the Crolna, he still asks me if he can see it, and I hand it over to him o_O)
meti/seld: "Well, actually there is an interesting topic. My field of research, you know."
"'Metic' is actually a name we've given them - they call themselves @Seldane."
"Some say they are a myth, or extinct, but neither is true, you know."
"Of course you all know that, we've met them, haven't we..."
(Instead of that last line, he always says "I'd really like to find them someday, and talk with them. Most facinating." even if he's already seen you talk to multiple seldane.)

(Sacas)
(reporting back to her after interrogating Antiphus) ... "But when we captured him, he had a vial of silvery liquid, which he called 'kesh'."
"We think that this might be related to the immunity, but we're not sure. All we do know is that it is dangerous."
"Investigation has shown it to be addictive, and probably fatal in the long term - beyond that, we don't know much."
"If we could find where it was coming from, or even what it was made of, this might be an important clue."
Player: "I've seen that stuff before."*
Sacas: "Really? Where? When?"*
Player: "I found some on the band leader himself."*
Sacas: "Not surprising - but where did he get it from, I wonder. Thanks for the infomation, though."
(I've always stolen Eudoxus' kesh, and I don't think I've ever managed to tell Sacas about it. I can tell her that I found some on the spy in LKH, but not that I found some on Eudoxus. It looks like it should be possible to tell her about either one, or both.)

(Thuria)
(greeting) "Have you learned anything about the situation at the mine?"
Player: "Yes, I've been to the mine, and I've seen the so-called ghost"*
Thuria: "And?"
Player: "I'm not sure what it was. It doesn't appear to be hostile, however."
Thuria: "Well, thank you. Please continue to work on this matter, if you would."
(I don't know see the point of this dialogue, because there's another version of it where the player says pretty-much the same thing (that's the version I get when I talk to Thuria after seeing Jhiaxus). I thought maybe this version was reserved for if you attempted to talk to Jhiaxus without learning Seldane, then reported back to Thuria, but that didn't work. Any other ideas?)

(Seqedher, Unhayt, Uset)
Crol/corr: "The Crolna is a green glowing gem. Corruption was our enemy. The Corruption drove us from Maayti."
(They respond that way to "Crolna" but do not respond to "corruption.")

(Sabinate)
Esse: The essence of corruption taints the Crolna. Do not use it, less you risk destroying all you've fought for.
The Crolna must be purified. This we can not do, it must be done by a human, not bound to the land.
We have given you the spores of the earth - more we can not help.
(That last line is always replaced by Sabinate giving the player an earth-heart mushroom, even if the player already has one. It's kinda annoying, because those mushrooms can't be removed from the player's inventory, so it's possible to be stuck carrying around a bunch of them, if you keep asking Sabinate about "essence.")

(Charax)
Greeting: (You see a nervous, unkempt, young man.)
I'm making progress, but it is slow and not quite working the way I expected. It is quite facinating, actually - there are underlying field properties of the Sea, Time and Change.
And since Alchemy is based on Change, well, you can image that this is quite facinating indeed.
Give me some more time on this - I must thank you for bring up such a facinating issue...
(Maybe this was meant to be between when you give him the Timeflux book, & he figures out that he needs deep-sea kelp?)

(Alaric)
Bond: I am as one with the land again, thanks to you.
(This seems like it would be his response if you ask him about his bond after curing him, but it's not possible to do that...)

(Magpie)
Greeting: Please, talk to the master first.
Thre: Jhaixus is one. Jinrai is one.
Bahoudin is two. Chrysothemis is one.
Alaric is three.
Baho: An old name, not used anymore.
Jhia: Many people have many motives, not all bode well.
Jinr: People of Jinrai are dangerous - very much so.
Remember well that the dead do not walk.
Sabi: Not all visions see deep to the truth of what is, and what must never be.
(The greeting looks like maybe it was meant to be if you tried to talk to Magpie before talking to Alaric in the beginning of the game; but that's not possible. Maybe with hacking? I remember Sely figured out how to change the location of where the game starts. In the "three" response, he pretty-much admits he's Alaric's dad, which makes me wonder if it was meant for conversation after curing Alaric, which also isn't possible.)

(Lindus)
Meti: Metic are a race of mystical beings who inhabit this world.
The person to talk to is Timon.
Timo: He has been studying the Metic @ruins.
(There are three other "metic" responses & four other other "Timon" responses, but I can't figure out how to get these ones.)

(Eteocles)
Kesh: Youse is awful nosy.
(There's another Kesh response, which is the only one I ever get, regardless of where I am in the game, whether I'm a member of the Guild, etc.)

(Halos)
Prop (or Ake): My brother Propontis (or Lady Ake) sent you? Well, why didn't you say so...
But now is not a good time to talk - please, stop by my office during working hours.
We will be able to speak more freely then.
(Instead of the last two lines, he says "So, you came all this way to talk @politics?" I can't think what situation/time would cause him to give the other response.)

This post has been edited by BreadWorldMercy453: 23 April 2015 - 02:41 PM

It wouldn't surprise me if some of these are bugs or are simply ones that didn't get implemented in the game. Most of them seem to be tied to specific events, so it is not impossible that an error was made.

I'm still working on revising my dialogue files, & I'm editing my list of responses that I can't find in the game as I go. Please let me know if you have any ideas about how I might get the responses listed two posts up! ^_^

Also, Bryce, I haven't heard much from you lately so I'm just assuming that you're getting devoured by medical school. In that case, you probably don't have time to grant my request, which isn't a big deal. But if you do happen to have time, I'd love to see the Abydos ghosts dialogue, which doesn't seem to be in either of the string dumps that I already have.

Lindus seems to give the Metic response the first time you ask after curing the plague, or something. Haven't really tested how it triggers, but I have a save with it. It's a one time only response—after you ask about Timon, he starts giving the longer one. Also, the Magpie responses sound really familiar, but I couldn't get them to trigger.

The rest of them just sound like bugs.

Thanks, Buzzy! ^_^

By the way, if anyone wants to see the revised dialogues and doesn't want to wait a few years(?) for Wizzy to put them on his website, I think you can get my dialogue collection from this Dropbox link: https://dl.dropboxus...%20Dialogue.zip