Ambrosia Software Web Board: Cythera Remake - Ambrosia Software Web Board

Ok, I've kinda been sitting on this idea for some time now, so I want to get a public opinion or suggestions before deciding what action to take.  From the moment I played Cythera, I was in love, and it always bothered me that the game was shorter than I had hoped, and not as fleshed out (backstory, mythology, item selection, etc. etc.).  I prayed for Ambrosia to make a Cythera 2, or some sort of remake with more quests, plot development (not that the plot wasn't good the first time), character interaction, etc. Seeing as how something like that didnt, and still doesn't, seem to be forthcoming, I wondered if it would be possible to take the Delver engine and do it myself with the help of my equally Cythera-loving friends. At the time, I was also playing NWN, and the idea came to me to "port" Cythera to a NWN module. I know that Cythera is not a D&D game, operating on those rules and background dice tosses, but apart from that, I think that the party system, inventory, quest/journal, etc. would work for making Cythera into a module. It would also be well suited to expanding upon the existing game with new content. The sort of things I had in mind included:

- New items (armor, swords, potions, whatever goes into the inventory)
- New quests (I was actually thinking about taking some of the TSs and turning them into quests, with some of the characters as NPCs and stuff)
- Expanded history/mythology (via books, maybe? or even integrated into the plot? I remember how excited I was at finding Ur'Sylph and the fire elemental, not to mention the already important seldane and undine)
- New locations (more areas in the mountains? hidden in the forests? a different island, even?)
- More spells? (I never became a heavy magic user in Cythera, but I imagine this would interest people)
- More character interaction (new NPCs, etc.)
- Skills/Feats (Feats would be really cool in Cythera)

I imagine that character creation and development will be changed, but this might not necessarily be a bad thing. There would be more classes, new races, and a new set of skills. It would be entirely possible to make a character that fits the intro (I would imagine human, then? lol), or even a different intro more feasible for different races.

There are probably a lot of flaws with this idea, but I'd really appreciate some feedback (maybe there are some good things I forgot, too )

- Koth

Sounds interesting but i think you might want to keep it to humans... to follow the game (i haven't run into any elves or anything when i played). But if people would really want to totally change it, i think it would lose its touch. Anyways thats what i think.

-DJ

Ok, first off, I heartily recommend that people get NWN. Apart from being a requirement to play this module when it is finished, it's a great game in and of itself.

That having been said, seeing as how I am probably the one one with a PC and a copy of NWN (the mac version doesn't have the toolkit, unfortunately), I'll be putting this all together myself. If necessary, I will look for help on the module-making end in the NWN community.

Thanks to Sfiera (Pallas Athene) I have most (? maybe all?) of the dialogue and book text in the game already, and I can use Slayer's guide for other stuff (like the quests, spells, etc.) that I might not pick up while playing through the game again (to get a fresh look at it), but any suggestions, or things I should take note of, are much appreciated.

What I really need from you guys is the new content. Ideas for new items, quests, locations, etc. (all the stuff listed previously). The thing about the TSes was kind of like "Wouldn't it be cool to let people play through the stories they themselves helped write?" If anyone knows a suitable TS for a quest or whatever, post here (not the TS, just that you know one, and maybe a link to it). I'd also really like to develop the history/backstory in Cythera (you know, all the "mythology-esque" stuff with the Seldane, Undine, Sylphs, and Ignae . . . there was also mention in a book or two of a "chimaera" or something, really want to develop that, and the ghosts in Abydos . . . there is plenty to do )

- Koth

PS - About the elves thing, just pick "human" as race and you'll be fine

This post has been edited by Kothliim: 07 May 2005 - 01:02 AM

I know that Dusk has a PC verison of NWN but he has been really busy lately so he hasn't been able to post. I can do small posts and thats about all because of school, I cant be bothered doing it but I know that I need to.
I like the idea of it, a Cythera 2 could be very interesting.

I think that you'd need gandreas's permission before you could start working on this idea.
One question, what is NWN?

This post has been edited by Selax: 07 May 2005 - 02:15 PM

Sorry, I should have explained NWN a little better . . . NWN is short for Neverwinter Nights. It's an RPG based on the D&D rules/concept and set in that universe made by BioWare. Just go to http://nwn.bioware.com for more info (and I think there's a demo, though I'm not sure if the demo is for mac, too). The key thing is that you can (with the PC version only, I'm afraid) make modules to play with the game. The modules made on PC ARE playable on mac. The downside is that to play, you need NWN.

- Koth

PS - How would I get in touch with gandreas?

This is a really neat idea, and I'd be willing to help with it however I can.

If you need to contact gandreas, I have some ideas. You could PM him, but the most effective method would probably be to send him an email. I don't know his email address, but it's most likely under his account profile.

You could probably get away with PMing him, it looks like he checks the ASW boards every day.

Ok, I've PM'd gandreas . . . now we play the waiting game, eh?

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That's the spirit! And like I said, the ways in which you can help are numerous:

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Ideas should be posted right here on the board, files/other stuff should be sent to my email (cc_freak17@hotmail.com) or PM'd to me (you CAN attach files that way, right?).

Since what I really need is new content, I can't exactly make a checklist or list of jobs that need to be done. However, if someone wants to complete the work that Pallas started (transcribing books/dialogue), here are the links to what's already finished:
http://idisk.mac.com...a/dialogue.html
http://idisk.mac.com...hera/books.html (I think Slayer's guide has a list of books and locations?)

That's basically all I have to say right now . . . anyone with NWN (PC) and who knows how to use the toolkit, please PM me to see if we can get the ball rolling (faster) on actually putting it together, since while it's probably possible to do it alone, it will be slow going.

- Koth

Well, still no reply from gandreas, but I did read a little of the characters thread (the pinned one) and the weapons thread that links from it (I really should have read these two earlier on . . . ) and wanted to know from the people who posted there if I could use some of the characters (as NPCs) and/or weapons in the module (eventually).

- Koth

While I appreciate the enthusiasm, I can neither condone nor endorse any such project in which I don't have complete creative control. Such an endevor would not be Cythera in appearance, feel, soul or storyline consistency. (Not to mention that others have tried before and given up)

I wish I could tell you that there is a new version ready instead, but saddly, I can't say that either. I've got a whole lot of projects on my plate (and some of them even pay money), and at this time I can't invest the amount of time it would require to prepare a new version. This is not to say that I haven't contemplated it multiple times - I can't commit to it.

Work is still being made on the Carbonized version (unfortunately*), but it is unknown when that will be completed, due to a number of factors, including the subtle yet signficant differences between Carbon & Classic (which make getting everything working well extremely difficult), issues with the tools (still using CodeWarrior 8.3, even though I'm running Tiger - converting it to another compiler would probably take an insane amount of time), and generally insuficient motivation (caused by a number of issues, including the above mentioned "busy" as well as a lack of enthusiasm from tester feedback).

(*unfortunately because at some point it may turn out to not be feasible without rewriting large amounts of the code which could be better done by starting from scratch, not to mention the fact that in the end it would still look and feel exactly like a 5+ year old game).

The Man has spoken. I wish it weren't so, but it's right there in black pixels. I don't suppose anyone has any ideas as to what steps should be taken now? I'd hate to see all the enthusiasm disappear simply because gandreas doesn't have the time to exercise "complete creative control."

gandreas: it's clear that Ambrosia has given up on Cythera. A Carbonized version, while a good start, just isn't enough anymore. As you say, it would still look and feel like an old game. Give us, the people who still care about it, the opportunity to do what we can to bring it back into the online limelight. If it makes any difference, I would be more than happy to submit the finished module to Ambrosia (or you, specifically) for quality testing or whatever before it is released to the community.

The fact of the matter is, however, that "Cythera 2" is, at the moment, a nonexistant project for Ambrosia. I expect it will remain nonexistant. Any storyline additions or change in appearance/feel/whatever are therefore not really an issue, seeing as how there are no "official" additions/changes, nor are there plans for any, to conflict with.

- Koth

btw, come on guys, post for crying out loud . . . voice your opinions on the matter . . . I can't do this alone

Actually, if I was in gandreas' shoes I'd probably say the same thing. Cythera is his creation, most of the fanfiction written about the game doesn't stay strictly true to the world he created. They aren't actually Cythera.

Ambrosia hasn't given up on Cythera, its still able to be bought off of the store page.

Ok, fine. How about just a direct port to NWN? Nothing added whatsoever. Would that be okay?

A better idea might be to take the premise of one or more of the TSs, and make an NWN module based on that. It's something I've thought about a few times, but I just don't have the time or energy for it right now.