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Please don't try to read too much into this (because there isn't deep subtle meanings hidden between the lines like my usual posts have), but...
What would people think of producing a set of libraries and/or a basic scenario for Coldstone that provides a "World of Cythera" that people can use for making Cythera based scenarios/plugins using Coldstone?
This would basically be just the graphics from Cythera (in as much as they could be transferred to CS), and hopefully basic things like items, monsters, skills, whatever can be wedged into CS.
Obviously nothing built with it by users would be considered canon (though the basic information provided by the "World of Cythera" package would be), but at least it would provide a common starting place for people to work from.
The related question involves what sort of additional background material to provide (beyond what can be found in the game). For example, if the full details of Tavara are included, it would provide interesting material for people to play with, but would also spoil anything in the future that depends on the player discovering this material "in game".
Just looking for feedback (and let me point out that I have _no_ plans to write sequels to Cythera in Coldstone)
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Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to Know...
"World of Cythera" library for Coldstone
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#2
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Posted 31 July 2002 - 03:02 PM
I think the coldstone engine could not do justice to Cythera. Besides, I don't think anybody played Cythera for the graphics anyway.
What I thought was best in Cythera was it's day/night cycle, and attention to detail, such as people's need to eat, so I really don't think coldstone is good for Cythera.
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What I thought was best in Cythera was it's day/night cycle, and attention to detail, such as people's need to eat, so I really don't think coldstone is good for Cythera.
------------------
"Why do these candles say T-N-T?" - (famous last words 104)
Where do you want to [url="http://"http://www.macclassics.com/cythera/tricks/rJade.htm"]teleport[/url] today?
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#3
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Posted 31 July 2002 - 05:20 PM
Still, it might be nice to have some Coldstone scenarios and graphics relating to Cythera!
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"To listen, one must be silent." -Ogion, A Wizard of Earthsea
------------------
"To listen, one must be silent." -Ogion, A Wizard of Earthsea
"Just the thought of a rap version of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony or 'Achy, Breaky Heart' is bound to make people smile." -Justice Anthony Kennedy, Campbell v. Acuff (2005)
"Haul your ass, Harry, but haul it slowly, or you'll sink the damn boat." -George Washington
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#4
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Posted 31 July 2002 - 08:43 PM
Well, it's either Coldstone or what we have now, which is... nothing. I vote for Coldstone.
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#5
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Posted 31 July 2002 - 08:55 PM
Coldstone.
[edit]Perhaps it would be good to include things we could work with to create playable TSes or something...
[/edit]
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"To listen, one must be silent." -Ogion, A Wizard of Earthsea
[This message has been edited by Mr. Somebody (edited 07-31-2002).]
[edit]Perhaps it would be good to include things we could work with to create playable TSes or something...
[/edit]------------------
"To listen, one must be silent." -Ogion, A Wizard of Earthsea
[This message has been edited by Mr. Somebody (edited 07-31-2002).]
"Just the thought of a rap version of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony or 'Achy, Breaky Heart' is bound to make people smile." -Justice Anthony Kennedy, Campbell v. Acuff (2005)
"Haul your ass, Harry, but haul it slowly, or you'll sink the damn boat." -George Washington
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#6
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Posted 01 August 2002 - 01:18 AM
Make a cythera editor. Cache22 thinks it either coldstone or nothing, ill settle with the third option, just our knowledge. Do you really think we need to convert one of the most complex, interactive game to a very, very typical engine like coldstone (no offence meant)?
Coldstone itself is an engine designed for role playing games, but the type of role playing that you would classify Diablo 2 under, not the type of role play you classify Cythera under.
Cythera as a game, i would say, would be as close to true role play as it has ever got, the fact that almost every aspect of life is covered, you can steal what you see, you can sleep in beds. Cythera is a game that was never played for its graphics, becuase the buetiful storyline and complexity of the whole game dwarfs every bug, spelling mistake, or unrealism about it (not that there are many).
So in my opion, no, ColdStone simply, in Bryces words, simply doesnt do justice to Cythera. we have relied upon our knowledge, and what the game provides us with in the past, why change now.
(please note the rhetoric included in this post)
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Yesterday, we bent our necks to kings and emperors. But today, we kneel only to truth -Kahil Gibran
Coldstone itself is an engine designed for role playing games, but the type of role playing that you would classify Diablo 2 under, not the type of role play you classify Cythera under.
Cythera as a game, i would say, would be as close to true role play as it has ever got, the fact that almost every aspect of life is covered, you can steal what you see, you can sleep in beds. Cythera is a game that was never played for its graphics, becuase the buetiful storyline and complexity of the whole game dwarfs every bug, spelling mistake, or unrealism about it (not that there are many).
So in my opion, no, ColdStone simply, in Bryces words, simply doesnt do justice to Cythera. we have relied upon our knowledge, and what the game provides us with in the past, why change now.
(please note the rhetoric included in this post)
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Yesterday, we bent our necks to kings and emperors. But today, we kneel only to truth -Kahil Gibran
"Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth..."
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Posted 01 August 2002 - 01:37 AM
I think there are ways to get Coldstone to pay attention to details. The hardest thing to do though might be a visual day/night cycle, but you could have a global variable keep track of the "time" and have certain actions happen during specific times. (like no npcs visible on the streets of the town, they're inside their houses sleeping.
Another problem would be the party, this will be almost impossible to do, and I haven't thought of a suitable workaround. (in the instance of playing something like a ts, there could be at least a character selection screen so you could choose who you want to play as)
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Another problem would be the party, this will be almost impossible to do, and I haven't thought of a suitable workaround. (in the instance of playing something like a ts, there could be at least a character selection screen so you could choose who you want to play as)
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#8
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Posted 01 August 2002 - 08:33 AM
I should think you could switch tiles for a day/night cycle in CS. Yeah, it'd be hard to do, but a fun challenge at least. Similarly, you should be able to make the char get hungry at certain times... you'd have the variable reset (or set to a certain amount) every time food was consumed. It would then tick down, perhaps give a warning or two, then begin to take a toll on health.
What I was thinking is that Cythera's much underappreciated windowing system - it was very versatile and mac-like - would be hard to reproduce in CS. Sure, you could make the windows look like Cythera windows, but they wouldn't act like it.
Personally, I think it's better to have a CS library for Cythera than nothing. I certainly vote yes.
(Also, I like Cythera's graphics. 'Nuff said.
)
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Bronze: the other gold metal. | | And so the space toaster hardened the outer layers of the doughy, ooey-gooey ancient Earth...
Bacchus Publishing: [url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category=guides&display=date&file=ChroniclesByJake101.sit.hqx"]Chronicles by Jake101: the unposted chapters[/url].
[This message has been edited by Talos (edited 08-01-2002).]
What I was thinking is that Cythera's much underappreciated windowing system - it was very versatile and mac-like - would be hard to reproduce in CS. Sure, you could make the windows look like Cythera windows, but they wouldn't act like it.
Personally, I think it's better to have a CS library for Cythera than nothing. I certainly vote yes.
(Also, I like Cythera's graphics. 'Nuff said.
)------------------
Bronze: the other gold metal. | | And so the space toaster hardened the outer layers of the doughy, ooey-gooey ancient Earth...
Bacchus Publishing: [url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category=guides&display=date&file=ChroniclesByJake101.sit.hqx"]Chronicles by Jake101: the unposted chapters[/url].
[This message has been edited by Talos (edited 08-01-2002).]
Bronze: the other gold metal. || And so the space toaster hardened the outer layers of the doughy, ooey-gooey ancient Earth...
Bacchus Publishing: [url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category=guides&display=date&file=ChroniclesByJake101.sit.hqx"]Chronicles by Jake101: the unposted chapters[/url].
Bacchus Publishing: [url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category=guides&display=date&file=ChroniclesByJake101.sit.hqx"]Chronicles by Jake101: the unposted chapters[/url].
#9
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Posted 01 August 2002 - 09:18 AM
Just to clarify - this would not be to "recreate" Cythera, but rather to allow for making new Coldstone games in the Cythera world. I understand that the engines are quite different, and it would be all but impossible to completely simulate the capabilities of the Delver engine in Coldstone.
Rather the goal would be to provide things like artwork, items, monsters, various scripts and perhaps even maps that could be used to create (non-canonical) Coldstone games in the "World of Cythera". So things like the party, day-night cycles/lighting/line of sight, windowed UI and all the rest wouldn't be there (though I'd try to mimick as much of the game system as possible).
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Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to Know...
Rather the goal would be to provide things like artwork, items, monsters, various scripts and perhaps even maps that could be used to create (non-canonical) Coldstone games in the "World of Cythera". So things like the party, day-night cycles/lighting/line of sight, windowed UI and all the rest wouldn't be there (though I'd try to mimick as much of the game system as possible).
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Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to Know...
#10
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Posted 01 August 2002 - 09:27 AM
Mr. Andreas, In this new era of openness, can you *PLEASE* give me you email address?
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#11
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Posted 01 August 2002 - 10:14 AM
I agree with Magpie, a Cythera EDITOR would be best. Still, I stick with my vote, Coldstone.
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"To listen, one must be silent." -Ogion, A Wizard of Earthsea
------------------
"To listen, one must be silent." -Ogion, A Wizard of Earthsea
"Just the thought of a rap version of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony or 'Achy, Breaky Heart' is bound to make people smile." -Justice Anthony Kennedy, Campbell v. Acuff (2005)
"Haul your ass, Harry, but haul it slowly, or you'll sink the damn boat." -George Washington
Barbarian Films
"Haul your ass, Harry, but haul it slowly, or you'll sink the damn boat." -George Washington
Barbarian Films
#12
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Posted 01 August 2002 - 02:51 PM
It might be best, but Glenn's said it's not going to happen. Therefore, it's not an option.
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The e-mail of the specious is deadlier than their mail
"The e-mail of the specious is deadlier than their mail" - Tom Holt, 'Snow White and the Seven Samurai'
#13
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Posted 01 August 2002 - 03:29 PM
I guess I vote for getting the coldstone thing... better than nothing... and there's also another reason, which I won't likely disclose *Cryptic Grin*
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"Why do these candles say T-N-T?" - (famous last words 104)
Where do you want to [url="http://"http://www.macclassics.com/cythera/tricks/rJade.htm"]teleport[/url] today?
------------------
"Why do these candles say T-N-T?" - (famous last words 104)
Where do you want to [url="http://"http://www.macclassics.com/cythera/tricks/rJade.htm"]teleport[/url] today?
"Programming is an art form that fights back."
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#14
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Posted 01 August 2002 - 10:43 PM
Bryce's Criptic Grin. Refer to the topic: Possible future hiatus
or go to this [url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/Forum5/HTML/001180.html"]link.[/url]
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"To listen, one must be silent." -Ogion, A Wizard of Earthsea
or go to this [url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/Forum5/HTML/001180.html"]link.[/url]
------------------
"To listen, one must be silent." -Ogion, A Wizard of Earthsea
"Just the thought of a rap version of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony or 'Achy, Breaky Heart' is bound to make people smile." -Justice Anthony Kennedy, Campbell v. Acuff (2005)
"Haul your ass, Harry, but haul it slowly, or you'll sink the damn boat." -George Washington
Barbarian Films
"Haul your ass, Harry, but haul it slowly, or you'll sink the damn boat." -George Washington
Barbarian Films
#15
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Posted 01 August 2002 - 11:16 PM
I do not plan on using the graphics for my game, but this does have to do with programing... and I normaly only use the cryptic grin when I am in programmer mood, though. <IMG SRC="http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/smile.gif" HEIGHT="15" WIDTH="15">
(Edit: I imagine political types wish it were this easy to change the past.)
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"Why do these candles say T-N-T?" - (famous last words 104)
Where do you want to teleport today?
(Edit: I imagine political types wish it were this easy to change the past.)
------------------
"Why do these candles say T-N-T?" - (famous last words 104)
Where do you want to teleport today?
This post has been edited by Bryce: 05 November 2006 - 10:21 PM
"Programming is an art form that fights back."
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#16
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Posted 05 August 2002 - 03:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by gandreas:
Just to clarify - this would not be to "recreate" Cythera, but rather to allow for making new Coldstone games in the Cythera world. I understand that the engines are quite different, and it would be all but impossible to completely simulate the capabilities of the Delver engine in Coldstone.
Rather the goal would be to provide things like artwork, items, monsters, various scripts and perhaps even maps that could be used to create (non-canonical) Coldstone games in the "World of Cythera". So things like the party, day-night cycles/lighting/line of sight, windowed UI and all the rest wouldn't be there (though I'd try to mimick as much of the game system as possible).
Just to clarify - this would not be to "recreate" Cythera, but rather to allow for making new Coldstone games in the Cythera world. I understand that the engines are quite different, and it would be all but impossible to completely simulate the capabilities of the Delver engine in Coldstone.
Rather the goal would be to provide things like artwork, items, monsters, various scripts and perhaps even maps that could be used to create (non-canonical) Coldstone games in the "World of Cythera". So things like the party, day-night cycles/lighting/line of sight, windowed UI and all the rest wouldn't be there (though I'd try to mimick as much of the game system as possible).
Actually, I was just in contact with Andrew about this -- though I am in a transition period (going off to college) at the moment, I was interested in reproducing the Cytheran world in Coldstone. Agreed, it simply wouldn't be perfect, but it would allow for the Cythera community to finally be able to create plug-ins for the Cytheran world. I think it'd be neat as all heck to be able to PLAY some of the team stories we have done.
I noticed that you avoided using wording that would imply that you were going to do it...is this purposeful? ie, are you gauging whether people would appreciate it, but not planning on doing it yourself? If you're interesting in making it, then awesome -- I don't need a big project.
However, if you aren't interested in doing it personally, the idea of doing it myself is somewhat attractive to me. Having access to the Cythera graphics would be very, very nice for that... I bet the Cythera Add-Ons section would appreciate it... ------------------
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Posted 05 August 2002 - 11:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by theGlueBubble:
Actually, I was just in contact with Andrew about this -- though I am in a transition period (going off to college) at the moment, I was interested in reproducing the Cytheran world in Coldstone.
Actually, I was just in contact with Andrew about this -- though I am in a transition period (going off to college) at the moment, I was interested in reproducing the Cytheran world in Coldstone.
Wow, what a coincidence!
Quote
Agreed, it simply wouldn't be perfect, but it would allow for the Cythera community to finally be able to create plug-ins for the Cytheran world. I think it'd be neat as all heck to be able to PLAY some of the team stories we have done.
I noticed that you avoided using wording that would imply that you were going to do it...is this purposeful?
I noticed that you avoided using wording that would imply that you were going to do it...is this purposeful?
Give that man a gold star (since he's already a moderator, and so I can't give him karma)
Quote
ie, are you gauging whether people would appreciate it, but not planning on doing it yourself? If you're interesting in making it, then awesome -- I don't need a big project.
However, if you aren't interested in doing it personally, the idea of doing it myself is somewhat attractive to me. Having access to the Cythera graphics would be very, very nice for that... I bet the Cythera Add-Ons section would appreciate it... Pretty much nailed it all right on the head there. Given that there is a desire to set Coldstone based games in Cythera, I figured if there was enough demand it would be worth doing well - namely using the real graphics, items, monsters, etc (in as much as possible).
I see two different parts here - one being the graphics (which can be exported from the game using the editor, though they need to be rearranged & joined together correctly, since they are all stored as 32x32 tiles), and the other being an attempt to recreate the rest of the world (in terms of items, monsters, spells, stats, game experience, etc...).
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Posted 05 August 2002 - 02:19 PM
(Disappeared)
------------------
"Why do these candles say T-N-T?" - (famous last words 104)
Where do you want to teleport today?
------------------
"Why do these candles say T-N-T?" - (famous last words 104)
Where do you want to teleport today?
This post has been edited by Bryce: 01 September 2007 - 01:36 PM
"Programming is an art form that fights back."
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#19
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Posted 05 August 2002 - 10:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by gandreas:
I see two different parts here - one being the graphics (which can be exported from the game using the editor, though they need to be rearranged & joined together correctly, since they are all stored as 32x32 tiles), and the other being an attempt to recreate the rest of the world (in terms of items, monsters, spells, stats, game experience, etc...).
I see two different parts here - one being the graphics (which can be exported from the game using the editor, though they need to be rearranged & joined together correctly, since they are all stored as 32x32 tiles), and the other being an attempt to recreate the rest of the world (in terms of items, monsters, spells, stats, game experience, etc...).
Yeah, I'd agree. I think a lot of the unique features of Cythera will be able to be duplicated, although perhaps not perfectly, using Coldstone. So that left me with the biggest question being the graphics -- if I wasn't able to attain the graphics from you/ASW, I wasn't going to attempt to capture all of them with a screen capture utility, clean them up, etc. Instead, I was just going to settle for the Coldstone graphics provided, and use a few favors for some of the unique creatures of Cythera. However, if you would be willing to provide me with the graphics (either directly, or through allowing me to use the editor and describing how to do what you described), I'd use the original Cytheran graphics in order to attempt as close a recreation as possible.
------------------
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Posted 20 August 2002 - 02:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by theGlueBubble:
...hullo?
...hullo?
Spam? What is this?
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quantified - perhaps the absense of things that make it bad? - Words of Eisdom from Glenn Andreas
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Posted 20 August 2002 - 03:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bryce:
Spam? What is this?
Spam? What is this?
Looks like he was moving the topic up, to catch gandreas attention...
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Bronze: the other gold metal. | | And so the space toaster hardened the outer layers of the doughy, ooey-gooey ancient Earth...
Bacchus Publishing: [url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category=guides&display=date&file=ChroniclesByJake101.sit.hqx"]Chronicles by Jake101: the unposted chapters[/url].
Bronze: the other gold metal. || And so the space toaster hardened the outer layers of the doughy, ooey-gooey ancient Earth...
Bacchus Publishing: [url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category=guides&display=date&file=ChroniclesByJake101.sit.hqx"]Chronicles by Jake101: the unposted chapters[/url].
Bacchus Publishing: [url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category=guides&display=date&file=ChroniclesByJake101.sit.hqx"]Chronicles by Jake101: the unposted chapters[/url].
#23
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Posted 21 August 2002 - 03:58 PM
Doubt it'll do much, Glenn seems to have disappeared again…
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Siena College- Like Yale, only not!
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#24
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Posted 21 August 2002 - 04:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by idiotSavant:
Doubt it'll do much, Glenn seems to have disappeared again…
Doubt it'll do much, Glenn seems to have disappeared again…
Well, ody, you know what you can do about that... and you know what I mean!
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In general, what exactly makes a game good isn't that easily
quantified - perhaps the absense of things that make it bad? - Words of Wisdom from Glenn Andreas
Where do you want to [url="http://"http://www.macclassics.com/cythera/tricks/rJade.htm"]teleport[/url] today?
[This message has been edited by Bryce (edited 08-26-2002).]
"Programming is an art form that fights back."
www.magnatune.com - Magnatune: Internet record label. Wide selection of music in MP3, flac, ogg: no DRM. Legal. Artists get 50% of your money.
www.magnatune.com - Magnatune: Internet record label. Wide selection of music in MP3, flac, ogg: no DRM. Legal. Artists get 50% of your money.
#25
- Odysseus
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 723
- Joined: 20-December 00
- Location:New York
Posted 21 August 2002 - 04:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bryce:
Well, ody, you know what you can do about that... and you know what I mean!
Well, ody, you know what you can do about that... and you know what I mean!
*sigh* I suppose so, Bryce. …and I had just finished cleaning off the blood from the last game maker. Ah well…
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Siena College- Like Yale, only not!
"Anything is possible, except skiing through a revolving door."
I am not your rolling wheels / I am the highway / I am not your carpet ride / I am the sky / I am not your blowing wind / I am the lightning / I am not your autumn moon / I am the night
