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[This poll is merely for information purposes only - it does not reflect any commitment to future products, and please, no wagering]
Of the following types of products that could be produced using the Delver engine, which would you most like to see and why (note: saying "all of them" doesn't provide any useful information). Pick one, or rate a preference, and, if possible, explain why... (the given choices all have some orthogonal design decisions that make it difficult to combine two of the answers in a single product)
[list=1]
[*] A persistant, online, multi-player version, a "Cythera Online"
[*] A multi-player LAN version, so you could play with your friends, with the ability toexpand the world and make additional modules that could be readily shared with others
[*] A single-player version that generates the world/cities/dungeons/caves/etc... randomly, allowing all sorts of add-on modules (sort of like a [url="http://"http://www.skoardy.demon.co.uk/rlnews/faq_rl.html"]rogue-like[/url] game crossed with EV plugins)
[*] An editor for the Delver engine (much like ColdStone, but probably more difficult to use, and based on the Delver engine), allowing you to make completely new scenarios with your own world, etc...
[*] A sequel to Cythera, with a new, more powerful graphics engine, larger world, etc...
[/list=a]
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#2
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Posted 22 November 2000 - 02:23 PM
Oh, and after posting I realized this could get mixed up. I answered in the same order as gandreas gave, not necessarily which I thought was best.
1.
I say Number One, Cythera Online, takes the cake without very much competition. I guess it depends some on what sort of things you would be able to do, but if, for example, I could do missions, get money, and use it to say...set myself up as a trader extraordinaire, it would be great. You know, buy a warehouse in Odemia, sell protected space for people to store excess belongings in, expand to Cademia....the possibilities are endless (I just used the town names as an example, I don't expect it would have the same characters, etc.). Another example is if you were to start a mercenary guild.....people come and pay you for their services (You would employ certain people who are paid a portion of the buyer's money). I think that this is the best idea, but to make it truly awesome, it needs to be very interactive....not just, "Go kill the Undines!"
Oh....and I won't buy it unless I can get furniture for my buildings!!!! 
2. Having a LAN version would be fun, but I don't think that is the way to go. For one, very few people have access to any kind of large LAN network, or one at all. (I am assuming people's schools are as strict as mine about games). Basically, I think Cythera Online is bigger, and better, than a LAN version.
3. Of course, this would be cool, but if all these choices have the same possibility of being developed, I still vote for Cythera Online.
4. Basically, why? I can't see a reason for it, when you will have a more user-friendly, same abilities (or better, I don't know, hehe, or worse) Coldstone coming out.
5. This would also be cool, but once again, the funnest games to play are online, IMHO.
It will be interesting to see what other people think, and any one of these would be very cool. (well, number 4 wouldn't really matter that much.....hmm, actually, do me a favor and expound upon what Delver can do.)
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And so the problem remained; lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that the trees had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglass Adams
[This message has been edited by theKestrel (edited 11-22-2000).]
1.
I say Number One, Cythera Online, takes the cake without very much competition. I guess it depends some on what sort of things you would be able to do, but if, for example, I could do missions, get money, and use it to say...set myself up as a trader extraordinaire, it would be great. You know, buy a warehouse in Odemia, sell protected space for people to store excess belongings in, expand to Cademia....the possibilities are endless (I just used the town names as an example, I don't expect it would have the same characters, etc.). Another example is if you were to start a mercenary guild.....people come and pay you for their services (You would employ certain people who are paid a portion of the buyer's money). I think that this is the best idea, but to make it truly awesome, it needs to be very interactive....not just, "Go kill the Undines!"
Oh....and I won't buy it unless I can get furniture for my buildings!!!! 2. Having a LAN version would be fun, but I don't think that is the way to go. For one, very few people have access to any kind of large LAN network, or one at all. (I am assuming people's schools are as strict as mine about games). Basically, I think Cythera Online is bigger, and better, than a LAN version.
3. Of course, this would be cool, but if all these choices have the same possibility of being developed, I still vote for Cythera Online.
4. Basically, why? I can't see a reason for it, when you will have a more user-friendly, same abilities (or better, I don't know, hehe, or worse
) Coldstone coming out.5. This would also be cool, but once again, the funnest games to play are online, IMHO.
It will be interesting to see what other people think, and any one of these would be very cool. (well, number 4 wouldn't really matter that much.....hmm, actually, do me a favor and expound upon what Delver can do.)
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And so the problem remained; lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that the trees had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglass Adams
[This message has been edited by theKestrel (edited 11-22-2000).]
Growth through the Cross.
#3
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Posted 22 November 2000 - 02:27 PM
The things I'd enjoy seeing are, in order from most to least(though admittedly, they all seem good):
1: 5. A sequel to Cythera. The events in Cythera left the door WIDE open to create a world in Cythera's past. I'd like to play in a setting where Tavara is up and around, causing mayhem, rather than decayed into a lazy lich. Maybe have it set in the land of Thera (homeworld of Cytherans). I'd like to see more about what forced the voyage to Cythera.
2: 1. Cythera Online. This would offer an excellent opportunity to expand upon the team stories which are currently so popular.
3: 3. Random Cythera. I like the idea of facing a new and different adventure each time I sit down to play Cythera. There is, after all, only so much you can do in a fixed world. This has the drawback, however, of not having a very developed plot.
4: 2. LAN Cythera. Teamplay is a good feature, but I don't have access to a LAN.
5: 4. Cythera editor. It would be fun to tinker with Cythera to better understand the underlying principles, but it would be very difficult to make a new world with any feasible amount of time and effort. If people have the inclination to do something like that, though, this has the potential to be very good.
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Slayer's guide to Cythera:
[url="http://"http://www.macclassics.com/cythera/cythera.htm"]http://www.macclassi...era/cythera.htm[/url]
1: 5. A sequel to Cythera. The events in Cythera left the door WIDE open to create a world in Cythera's past. I'd like to play in a setting where Tavara is up and around, causing mayhem, rather than decayed into a lazy lich. Maybe have it set in the land of Thera (homeworld of Cytherans). I'd like to see more about what forced the voyage to Cythera.
2: 1. Cythera Online. This would offer an excellent opportunity to expand upon the team stories which are currently so popular.
3: 3. Random Cythera. I like the idea of facing a new and different adventure each time I sit down to play Cythera. There is, after all, only so much you can do in a fixed world. This has the drawback, however, of not having a very developed plot.
4: 2. LAN Cythera. Teamplay is a good feature, but I don't have access to a LAN.
5: 4. Cythera editor. It would be fun to tinker with Cythera to better understand the underlying principles, but it would be very difficult to make a new world with any feasible amount of time and effort. If people have the inclination to do something like that, though, this has the potential to be very good.
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Slayer's guide to Cythera:
[url="http://"http://www.macclassics.com/cythera/cythera.htm"]http://www.macclassi...era/cythera.htm[/url]
Slayer's guide to Cythera:
http://russell.stanb...ide/cythera.htm
http://russell.stanb...ide/cythera.htm
#4
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Posted 22 November 2000 - 05:55 PM
Well, I don't know what a LAN exactly is, but it probably won't be something available to me for a long while. You could combine maybe #1 with #5, or #'s 1, 4, & 5 (the editor being for the sequal). In any case, here are my choices in order:
1: 1. Multiplayer games rarely lose excitement, unless the game is too fixed...which brings me to #2.
2: 3. Random games are usually the most fun. They can have a decent plot, look at Diablo I/II for example, you can have the terrain be random at least. Making this a multiplayer one would be, in my opinion, the best...maybe use the Ambrosia.net Andrew keeps hinting at...
3: 5. The sequal, like Slayer mentioned.
4: 2. The LAN game.
5: 4. The editor, many people would be frustrated with the non-user friendly interface, and if it was released it would probably be unsupported...like Ferazel's is.
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With war there is great amounts of death. Men and women make themselves known, doing dangerous feats in their attempt to become heroes.
Some succeed, some don't...
1: 1. Multiplayer games rarely lose excitement, unless the game is too fixed...which brings me to #2.
2: 3. Random games are usually the most fun. They can have a decent plot, look at Diablo I/II for example, you can have the terrain be random at least. Making this a multiplayer one would be, in my opinion, the best...maybe use the Ambrosia.net Andrew keeps hinting at...
3: 5. The sequal, like Slayer mentioned.
4: 2. The LAN game.
5: 4. The editor, many people would be frustrated with the non-user friendly interface, and if it was released it would probably be unsupported...like Ferazel's is.
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With war there is great amounts of death. Men and women make themselves known, doing dangerous feats in their attempt to become heroes.
Some succeed, some don't...
"Sometimes I get confused whether I'm posting on ATT or in the War Room. But then I remind myself: If it's moderators acting scatter-brained and foolish, then it's the War Room*.
*Unless it's Avatara, of course."
-- From the memoirs of Sundered Angel
*Unless it's Avatara, of course."
-- From the memoirs of Sundered Angel
#5
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Posted 22 November 2000 - 07:52 PM
LAN = Local Area Network, a bunch of computers hooked together....locally, say, in the same house. Usually using ethernet cables these days, but I used to use Appletalk printer cables and stuff.
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And so the problem remained; lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that the trees had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglass Adams
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And so the problem remained; lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that the trees had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglass Adams
Growth through the Cross.
#6
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Posted 22 November 2000 - 08:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by theKestrel:
LAN = Local Area Network, a bunch of computers hooked together....locally, say, in the same house. Usually using ethernet cables these days, but I used to use Appletalk printer cables and stuff.
LAN = Local Area Network, a bunch of computers hooked together....locally, say, in the same house. Usually using ethernet cables these days, but I used to use Appletalk printer cables and stuff.
Aww...crap. I have one of those, but nobody in my family would play that kind of game anyway. Oh well, my position still stands. (wouldn't it be possible to combine the multiplayer versions into one game with an option of which multiplayer mode you wanted to do?)
I think its possible to combine all five if you think about it, but I don't know too much about the delver engine. You could have a sequal released where it randomizes the terrain and map and creatures-usually not positions of towns or their layouts-I saw that in Diablo II, an editor to accompany it so we could make our own towns/fixed positions or if its random terrain, we could just make creatures and objects and maybe adjust the terrians and graphics. Then a multiplayer option where you can choose between LAN play and some online thingy, like Ambrosia.net. Then you could have all five in one. If I messed up somewhere among my rambling, or if there is something in the engine that would make this not possible, then let me know.
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With war there is great amounts of death. Men and women make themselves known, doing dangerous feats in their attempt to become heroes.
Some succeed, some don't...
[This message has been edited by Avatara (edited 11-22-2000).]
"Sometimes I get confused whether I'm posting on ATT or in the War Room. But then I remind myself: If it's moderators acting scatter-brained and foolish, then it's the War Room*.
*Unless it's Avatara, of course."
-- From the memoirs of Sundered Angel
*Unless it's Avatara, of course."
-- From the memoirs of Sundered Angel
#7
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Posted 22 November 2000 - 11:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Avatara:
I think its possible to combine all five if you think about it, but I don't know too much about the delver engine.
I think its possible to combine all five if you think about it, but I don't know too much about the delver engine.
No, unfortunately, for a massive, persistant online game, you would need a server that can handle lots of connections, and a client that takes a very light weight protocol (since the internet connection would have less bandwidth than a local ethernet connection). On a LAN, the bandwidth is higher, and you can more easily spread out the load between client and server - you also don't have to worry about cheating (since you'd be playing with your friends/family). As a result of these different goals, you have a different underlying architecture to solve those different goals. While some things are in common (such as the rendering, the UI, etc...) that stuff is pretty much already there with the Delver engine right now.
A randomized game conflicts with a detailed storyline - and certainly the ability to add in modules doesn't work with the massive online game (and would require a whole lot of synchronization for a LAN based game)
There certainly is some overlap - for example, some form of editing software is needed to make the plug-ins, or the expansions for the LAN version (you'd want to be able to edit tiles, objects, and characters in all of them).
In the end, though, saying "all of them" you'd end up effectively writing multiple different things, and then just packaging them together. The basic idea here is to find out, if "X" amount of work is done, where are people most interested in seeing it spent (not to imply that these are all the same amounts of work). Doing all of them would be more like 4*X amount of work, and that will also take 4 times as long (and realistically here, there is no way that any of these could ship in less than 6 month to a year, so we're looking at at least 2 years, if not 3 or more, to do all of them)
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Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to Know...
#9
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Posted 23 November 2000 - 08:30 AM
1: #4: An editor to the delver engine! Let me edit Cythera and I`ll never be sad again!
2: #5: A sequel to Cythera. But this time, make the buildings cost much less, better graphics, more intelligent team members(they tend to get lost in the woods) and please remove that "object has to stick or its gonna disappear forever" bug. Let us buy furniture etc. for our houses, by large or small houses, castles etc. (ultima online kinda thing).
3: #2: Multiplayer LAN version. Maybe a TCP/IP connection so me and my strange friends can play network games
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"Anyone can just go in there and kill someone, but you don`t get information from a corpse"
--SEAL motto
2: #5: A sequel to Cythera. But this time, make the buildings cost much less, better graphics, more intelligent team members(they tend to get lost in the woods) and please remove that "object has to stick or its gonna disappear forever" bug. Let us buy furniture etc. for our houses, by large or small houses, castles etc. (ultima online kinda thing).
3: #2: Multiplayer LAN version. Maybe a TCP/IP connection so me and my strange friends can play network games
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"Anyone can just go in there and kill someone, but you don`t get information from a corpse"
--SEAL motto
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room.
#10
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Posted 23 November 2000 - 02:07 PM
Hmm.....do the large men wearing black t-shirts with their heads shaved have to come after everyone to make them say an online Cythera? .....Don't make me do it.
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And so the problem remained; lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that the trees had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglass Adams
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And so the problem remained; lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that the trees had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglass Adams
Growth through the Cross.
#11
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Posted 23 November 2000 - 04:05 PM
I don't want to sound like I would give in to theKestrel's 'threat', but Cythera Online would surely be the most interesting option.
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One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them,
one ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
J.R.R. Tolkien
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One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them,
one ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
J.R.R. Tolkien
I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
#12 Guest_tboehm_*
Posted 26 November 2000 - 03:01 PM
Release an editor. A lot of people seem to have been drawn into the world of Cythera and need an outlet for their ideas. Some might also choose to create completely different and new worlds with your tools. I would love to try my hand at writing a game, and I think there are others who would too. Besides, wouldn't you like to play a game written on top of Delver where you didn't know the outcome?
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#13
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Posted 26 November 2000 - 03:53 PM
Amen to that...and welcome
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"Anyone can just go in there and kill someone, but you don`t get information from a corpse"
--SEAL motto
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"Anyone can just go in there and kill someone, but you don`t get information from a corpse"
--SEAL motto
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room.
#14
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Posted 26 November 2000 - 04:23 PM
Argh! GO TO THE COLDSTONE WEBBOARD!! I haven't heard anything that would say Delver is better than Coldstone, and it is almost certain that Coldstone is more user friendly.
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And so the problem remained; lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that the trees had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglass Adams
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And so the problem remained; lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that the trees had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglass Adams
Growth through the Cross.
#15
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Posted 27 November 2000 - 03:35 PM
Why do you want Delver? Just so you can edit Cythera itself? Why, just make your own Cythera with Coldstone.
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And so the problem remained; lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that the trees had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglass Adams
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And so the problem remained; lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they had all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that the trees had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglass Adams
Growth through the Cross.
#16
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Posted 02 December 2000 - 12:57 AM
Okay Rogan and theKestrel, you had your fun, now please knock off the spam and lets get back on-topic.
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With war there is great amounts of death. Men and women make themselves known, doing dangerous feats in their attempt to become heroes.
Some succeed, some don't...
------------------
With war there is great amounts of death. Men and women make themselves known, doing dangerous feats in their attempt to become heroes.
Some succeed, some don't...
"Sometimes I get confused whether I'm posting on ATT or in the War Room. But then I remind myself: If it's moderators acting scatter-brained and foolish, then it's the War Room*.
*Unless it's Avatara, of course."
-- From the memoirs of Sundered Angel
*Unless it's Avatara, of course."
-- From the memoirs of Sundered Angel
#17
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Posted 02 December 2000 - 08:04 AM
***a croaked voice is heard***
MUST...HAVE...EDITOR...
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Three is the number thou shalt count, and the number thou shalt will be three. Thou shalt not count four, nor shall thou count two, unless thee preceedeth to three. Five is right out.
--Monty python and the Holy Grail
MUST...HAVE...EDITOR...
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Three is the number thou shalt count, and the number thou shalt will be three. Thou shalt not count four, nor shall thou count two, unless thee preceedeth to three. Five is right out.
--Monty python and the Holy Grail
#18
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Posted 03 December 2000 - 04:29 PM
Hmm....I was informed I should look at this topic. 
I think you should quit asking for an editor.... What I played of Cythera was pretty buggy....I don't know whether this was Delver or not. I have, however, paid a lot of attention to Coldstone, and believe me....this thing is going to be awesome.
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"Bond, GlueBubble Bond."
I think you should quit asking for an editor.... What I played of Cythera was pretty buggy....I don't know whether this was Delver or not. I have, however, paid a lot of attention to Coldstone, and believe me....this thing is going to be awesome.------------------
"Bond, GlueBubble Bond."
Since 2000.
#19
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Posted 13 December 2000 - 12:19 AM
What is Cold Stone? There are ups and downs to an editor, but I really don't think it will be worth your while. Maybe you could release a preview of the editor-not public beta-to show people what it can do, listing some of the bugs and good sides of the editor as it stands in a ReadMe file. That would help people reason with the "Dark Side of the Force." 
I think that, although it would take a great amount of money/time, if you invest in "Cythera Online", it will pay off big-time. You get into a whole new realm with online games when you use a server. I personally would appreciate an industral revolution in Cythera, although I have no idea how you will manage all the people in there--I say this, because in order to have a very successful public internet game, you need to do some remodeling of the Delver engine to support a "world-scape" POV, which, in itself, may take a few months/weeks. Obviously, this is not a short-ranged project, but if you decide to do it, "more power to ya!"
About those t-shirt dudes: 3 words: Oh
My
Goodness
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A smile is a curved line
that bends the world
I think that, although it would take a great amount of money/time, if you invest in "Cythera Online", it will pay off big-time. You get into a whole new realm with online games when you use a server. I personally would appreciate an industral revolution in Cythera, although I have no idea how you will manage all the people in there--I say this, because in order to have a very successful public internet game, you need to do some remodeling of the Delver engine to support a "world-scape" POV, which, in itself, may take a few months/weeks. Obviously, this is not a short-ranged project, but if you decide to do it, "more power to ya!"
About those t-shirt dudes: 3 words: Oh
My
Goodness
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A smile is a curved line
that bends the world
#21
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Posted 13 December 2000 - 09:57 AM
I'd want an editor. Sure with Coldstone you could make your own Cythera, but if you had the Delever engine, you wouldn't have to do Cythera entirely from scratch.
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Ferazel Rocks!
Cythera's 'Team Stories' Rock!
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Ferazel Rocks!
Cythera's 'Team Stories' Rock!
And we're never gonna tour again.
#22
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Posted 13 December 2000 - 10:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by theGlueBubble:
I don't think the Delver engine would be used for an online Cythera.
I don't think the Delver engine would be used for an online Cythera.
You would be wrong then. There are parts that are not needed for a client (since that would be moved to the server) but the engine itself would work quite well
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#23
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Posted 13 December 2000 - 03:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by gandreas:
You would be wrong then. There are parts that are not needed for a client (since that would be moved to the server) but the engine itself would work quite well
You would be wrong then. There are parts that are not needed for a client (since that would be moved to the server) but the engine itself would work quite well
/me shows his lack of knowledge about how online games work.
So....does the Delver engine support multiplayer capabilities? Or does an engine have nothing to do with making a game multiplayer?
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"Bond, GlueBubble Bond."
Since 2000.
#24
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Posted 13 December 2000 - 05:41 PM
I'd not make the current Cythera multiplayer. If you do, people would be excited for a bit, and then it'd get boring as the game is exactly the same as the single-player game they've all beaten. If you are going to make a Cythera multiplayer, possibly change some stuff around, improve the game slightly, etc. In fact, it would probably be easier just to make a Cythera 2 with multiplayer capability. That way, there would be much more to explore/do and your work would have the greatest affect on the populace.
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"I'm a controversial figure. My friends either dislike me or hate me."
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"I'm a controversial figure. My friends either dislike me or hate me."
"Sometimes I get confused whether I'm posting on ATT or in the War Room. But then I remind myself: If it's moderators acting scatter-brained and foolish, then it's the War Room*.
*Unless it's Avatara, of course."
-- From the memoirs of Sundered Angel
*Unless it's Avatara, of course."
-- From the memoirs of Sundered Angel
#25
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Posted 13 December 2000 - 06:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Avatara:
I'd not make the current Cythera multiplayer. If you do, people would be excited for a bit, and then it'd get boring as the game is exactly the same as the single-player game they've all beaten. If you are going to make a Cythera multiplayer, possibly change some stuff around, improve the game slightly, etc. In fact, it would probably be easier just to make a Cythera 2 with multiplayer capability. That way, there would be much more to explore/do and your work would have the greatest affect on the populace.
I'd not make the current Cythera multiplayer. If you do, people would be excited for a bit, and then it'd get boring as the game is exactly the same as the single-player game they've all beaten. If you are going to make a Cythera multiplayer, possibly change some stuff around, improve the game slightly, etc. In fact, it would probably be easier just to make a Cythera 2 with multiplayer capability. That way, there would be much more to explore/do and your work would have the greatest affect on the populace.
Well, the scenario itself just doesn't make any sense for an online persitent multi-player game, but the basic engine (which draws the graphics, handles the windows, interacts with the user, tracks objects, etc...) would be fine.
A heavily plot dependant game never makes sense for an online game, since the first person to log in gets to do everything, and everybody else gets squat.
Instead you need a whole bunch of little things going on that everybody gets to enjoy.
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