Ambrosia Software Web Board: Join the dark side, speildburg, and make this movie for me... - Ambrosia Software Web Board

Ok, I am not a starwars fan at all. I'm somewhat of a star trek fan, but I just don't see what was so good about star wars. I mean, ridiculous plot, bad acting, breaking the laws of physics? Don't even get me started on the "lightsabre" or whatever. Also, why are the imperial troops so damn stupid? How could they ever take over the universe if they so damn retarded? What is so good about the movie that made it famous!? (And the SFX aren't that good for their time either...)

convince me.

------------------
Cotton Mouse
Ares Webboard Moderator with a fuse shorter than a mouse's tail

I apologize not being productive on this debate topic.

Personally, I think StarWars is better. StarTreck began to be kind of stupid and the enemies were all dumb. I don't think either of them had very good special effects.

Also, The fighting in StarTrek was really fake, it's as if they didn't even try to make the fights look real!!

StarWars has better ships and vehicles too. The Death Star was a little much(a ship the size of a moon?!?) but the X-Wings and TIE Fighters were pretty cool. StarTrek's ships were "OK", but aren't nearly as cool as the ones in StarWars, and StarTrek didn't have very many ships. StarWars has ground units too(my favorite is the AT-AT), and StarTrek doesn't.

[This message has been edited by Capt. Editor (edited 05-05-2001).]

Good god man. Good god.

If you don't see it's magic now, you never will.

------------------

Hey, Star Wars was the coolest thing when I was little. It's still fun for a good drinking game.

------------------
The Oracular Net would like to know your favorite color
[url="http://"http://www.axisnet.f2s.com"]=Axis Software Integrated=[/url]

Answer: nobody cares. Laws of physics? PAH! We don't need no stinkin' laws of physics. Stupid people? Hey, come join the club! (Note that stupid people have already taken over this planet, it wouldn't be much harder to take over the universe.)

------------------
—Joolzman5, that guy with the spikey red hair.
Search the boards [url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/search.cgi?action=intro"]here.[/url]
[url="http://"http://www.bushoncrack.com"]Bushoncrack![/url]

Its a fantasy. It's not supposed to be real... that is the magic.

------------------
All jocks think about is sports. All nerds think about is sex. [Non-exact quote from Revenge of the Nerds]

How come Stormtroopers get Imperial Training and have worse aim than Rebels?

How come a Stormtrooper is killed in one shot like the minor Rebels even with the armor they have?


Whoever said the ships in Star Trek didn't look good is obviously thinking of the low-budget ones used in the original series. Has anyone seen: Sovereign Class? Akira Class? Defiant Class? Negh'Var Class? V'orcha Class? D'deridex Class?

(Note that when I refer to Alien ships, I refer to them by Alien names)

QumwI'Daq Suchech'a'? (Are you all drunk on this communications device?)

------------------
What others can travel so far into so many universes yet remain so deeply rooted in their own?
[url="http://"http://marathon.invasion.tripod.com"]M:Inv[/url] and the [url="http://"http://pub61.ezboard.com/bmarathoninvasion"]M:Inv Webboards[/url]

Quote

Cotten,

Realistic movies would be rather boring. Let's expand this a bit, most movies that are "fun and enjoyable to watch" break some law of physics or another. Most movies aren't realistic anyway. C'mon, for example in Commando (the first thing that popped in my head), Arnold takes out many people without getting shot himself. In the matrix, well..where's the realism in that?

------------------
"I'm a controversial figure. My friends either dislike me or hate me."

Quote

Yeah, stupid democrats and communists!

------------------
"I'm a controversial figure. My friends either dislike me or hate me."

The theme of robots taking over the world is a common one. Besides, if they're smart enough to make a direct interface into the brain, why can't they create something like the Matrix? I admit the whole "The One" thing was a bit far fetched, but then agin, with proper genetic mutation...

I've never seen Commando. Sounds horrible.

------------------
What others can travel so far into so many universes yet remain so deeply rooted in their own?
[url="http://"http://marathon.invasion.tripod.com"]M:Inv[/url] and the [url="http://"http://pub61.ezboard.com/bmarathoninvasion"]M:Inv Webboards[/url]

[quote]Originally posted by Avatara:
Yeah, stupid democrats and communists!  

------------------
The Oracular Net would like to know your favorite color
[url="http://"http://www.axisnet.f2s.com"]=Axis Software Integrated=[/url]

Star Wars is popular because it came out in '76 or so. The special effects in it are still decent, and they blew everything else away when it first came out. I think Star Trek is okay, but I like the ship arrangement in Star Wars better. In Star Trek, there are no fighters, because the weapons are all too accurate to be dodgeable, meaning it's all capital-to-capital fighting, which is less exciting than in Star Wars, where there are fighters and dogfighting and missiles and such thrown into the mix. And Star Trek aliens are almost all humanoids, which is rather unrealistic if you ask me.

------------------
"If you take your helmet off in battle, sombody's gonna hack your head off."
Visit my site, if you're interested:
[url="http://"http://www.MSPlugDevelopment.n3.net"]www.MSPlugDevelopment.n3.net[/url]
Email me at vertical_file@yahoo.com with a review and a rating (out of 100) for an Ares plug, and I'll put it on the reviews section.

Quote

It's because they're the bad guys. They SUPPOSED to be dumb.

Quote

Yes, I always wondered about that...

Quote

Ah yes! Sovereign and Akira are my favorite! They are soooo cool! And not forget the Steamrunner and Saber class!

And Star Trek doesn't have good special effects? Come on guys! Star Wars had worse special effects! Though some of the special effects in Star Trek may not be THAT good, they aren't THAT bad either. And in some episodes the special effects are WAY COOL.

Oh, and btw, there IS some fighter-to-fighter fighting. The Federation use fighters, the Talaxians use fighters, the Raconda (I can't remember their name, they were in the Voyager episode "Dreadnaught") have fighters, and probably many other races also have fighters.

------------------
To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the [url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html"]EV Chronicles[/url].

- Many rebels attended the Imperial academy.....Han Solo included.

- Stormtrooper Armour is more of a uniform than anything else.....and is also used to invoke fear in their adversaries....much like a Star Destroyer.

- Whether the Imperial troops are stupid or not is not an issue as there is (or was) a practically unlimited supply of them.

- Star Trek's ship to ship combat involves parking opposite each other at the same height taking turns to fire perfectly accurate beam weapons, which are so effective as to eliminate a ship's entire weapons array/engine/shield in one shot. Torpedoes usually have 'no discernable effect'.

- Yes, there is fighter to fighter combat to an extent, but even that involves the same boring 'park and fire never missing beams' as the starship battles.

- With the notable exception of the Maquis, how is it that ALL humans in the entire galaxy seem to co-exist with each other and have somehow banished monetary systems. So what are they working for? Self improvement? Oh please.

- Star Trek revolves around four things - holodecks malfunctioning, transporters malfunctioning, shuttles crashing and the borg.

- Star Wars' effects were perfect in my opinion for what the film was. Find me 5 proper examples of why they weren't up to scratch.

- Bad acting in Star Wars? What about Star Trek then. The whole vulcan race is an excuse for hiring bad actors.....as is the borg.......any androids.....

- How is a lightsabre any less realistic than say a phaser....

-And....in Star Trek.....do ships ever go up and down? No. Not once.



------------------

Quote

I didn't know that.

Quote

Yes, I forgot about that aspect.

Quote

Yes, stupidity does not count in large numbers.

Quote

Not really. I could name a few episodes and go into a lot of detail about how this is not true, but I won't go there. However, I will say this:

1-Ship-to-ship combat is not like that. Ships actually move. Watch one of the big space battles in DS9, ships definitely do not just park beside each other and fire.
2-Torpedoes are extremely strong and in the Voyager episode "Equinox - Part 2" Voyager blew apart the U.S.S. Equinox's left engine with two torpedoes.
3-Phasers and torpedoes are strong and if you target them right, you can do a lot of damage.

Quote

No way! Look at DS9; in the large space battles fighters are flying all of the place!

Quote

That is one of the few things I don't like in Star Trek.

Quote

Not really. DS9 had tons of space battles and fighting the Dominion, and Voyager and The Next Generation has tons of encountering new races. There are very little holodeck and transporter malfunctions, shuttle crashes are rare, but the Borg are used a lot in ST VOY.

Quote

The ships looked fake, the aliens looked fake, and there wasn't tons of really cool special effects. On the other hand, Star Trek has tons of really cool looking aliens, ships, and the special effects are awesome. Sorry that I can't explain more.

Quote

Vulcans don't appear a lot. Much more Klingons, all Borg are just extras, and Data was an exceptional actor.

Quote

Maybe because how on earth could you possibly control the length of a light saber? Phasers are much more simpler.

Quote

Yes they do.

Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan.
Star Trek Insurrection
All of the DS9 battles
Several Voyager episodes

All of them had ships going up and down and such.

Now, I'm not saying that I don't like Star Wars, I just like Star Trek better.

-Captain Carnotaur

------------------
To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the [url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html"]EV Chronicles[/url].

Quote

I worded my point badly, I meant to say ships flying say perpendicular to each other or doing rolls. To me, the ships seem to be stuck in a sort of multi storey car-park. They may be on different 'levels' as it were, but they still never encounter each other upside down for example, they've always got the same orientation.

- I'll admit that in the large scale fleet battles in DS9's later episodes there is a fair deal of dogfighting, but I've yet to see this in one-on-one confrontations.

- I didn't see any fighters flying all over the place in DS9......and I think the federation fighters had the same old boring beam weapons anyway...just like all federation ships.....except the Defiant class.

- Other than Species 8472, most of the aliens in Star Trek are just humans with different ears/noses/eyes/skin colour. Or some form of microscopic life.

- Klingons aren't really good actors either. Hack with blade, growl, shout and die.

- Unfortunately, all of the ships in Star Wars were models. The cool ships in Star Trek, like the Akira, were computer generated. Bah to that. The X-wing is still the best

- Torpedoes only cause damage when the episode's story call for them to do so. In the Next Gen torpedoes rarely did any damage.

- It is claimed a phaser on its maximum setting could vapourise a building...how could something as small as a TV remote contain a power source that powerful. And how could you possibly build a ship around a black hole? (D'deridex Warbird)


Time for Chemistry homework. Fun.



------------------

Quote

How do you know that? For all you know they could be attacking at any number of angles. However, the camera only shows them at horizontal angles.

Quote

Not really. I've seen several instances of that in one-on-one combat.

Quote

No, I think they mainly had pulse type weapons. And they did fly around a lot.

Quote

That's because of budget problems. They can't spend thousands of dollars just on the aliens. Besides, I think the aliens are cool.

Quote

They aren't supposed to be good actors. And I could say the same thing about Stormtroopers.

Quote

And? That doesn't matter.

Quote

Not really. In two episodes they clearly stated that torpedoes are highly powerful.

Quote

That's only for phasers mounted on starships. Not normal hand phasers!

-Captain Carnotaur

------------------
To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the [url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html"]EV Chronicles[/url].

Wow! This is a massive ST vs. SW debate in the making. Keep it up! We've needed one of these for a while (and this applies to all the ASW boards).

------------------
The Oracular Net would like to know your favorite color
[url="http://"http://www.axisnet.f2s.com"]=Axis Software Integrated=[/url]

It seems that starwars is completely aimed at kids though, star trek has some intelligent and mature things in it, while star wars seems to be non-violent (never see anything but a tiny tiny explosion when someone's hit) with no cool deep thoughs underlying it...

------------------
Cotton Mouse
Ares Webboard Moderator with a fuse shorter than a mouse's tail

The main reason why there's a lot of extra Star Trek stuff out there is because Star Trek has had several TV shows and a bunch of movies. Star Wars is just three movies, all of them old, which means they're more for kids and they have poorer special effects and such. I still maintain that Star Trek combat is very dull and monotonous compared to Star Wars combat, and I think that the idea of ships looking cooler from one than the other is silly- some Star Wars ships look really cool, some Star Trek ships look really cool. Some Ares ships look cooler than many from Star Trek or Star Wars. Same goes with EV/O/N ships.

------------------
"If you take your helmet off in battle, sombody's gonna hack your head off."
Visit my site, if you're interested:
[url="http://"http://www.MSPlugDevelopment.n3.net"]www.MSPlugDevelopment.n3.net[/url]
Email me at vertical_file@yahoo.com with a review and a rating (out of 100) for an Ares plug, and I'll put it on the reviews section.

Quote

Nope, it is stated in both a Next Gen episode and the Next gen technology book (whatever it's called) that a standard type 2 phaser can vaporise an entire building. So how powerful would that make a type 3 phaser rifle, or a compression rifle? Or a photon grenade? Ouch.

- Explain to me how ships could be at different angles yet seem to all be horizontal merely due to the camera position.

- The aliens in and around the Mos Eisely cantina obviously didn't cost thousands of pounds.....and look how varied they are. At least it tries to make the point that not all aliens in the galaxy are just variants on a human.

- In more than two episodes, it clearly states that torpedoes are not powerful, even when used against ships much weaker than a galaxy class.

- I've got that DS9 battle with the fighters in on video....and watching it, it seems that you see the fighters:
a) In formation
Starting their attack run
c) Exploding soon after
All they seemed to do was just fly at the Dominion ships casually and then die.

------------------

Quote

I doubt it. That must have been screwed up, because people that make star trek aren't THAT unrealistic.

Quote

It's really not that hard. However, I can't explain it right now. Too tired, and have to go do something.

Quote

That's because they were all low tech and low special effects.

Quote

And can you prove this by actually saying the names of these two episodes? My two episodes were the one that Barcly got really smart and the one where they fire encountered the borg.

Quote

They did more than just that. Besides, that's practically the reason why they don't use fighters; all the capitol ships can just blow them to pieces.

-Captain Carnotaur

------------------
To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the [url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html"]EV Chronicles[/url].

- Since the power ratings of the established in not one, but at LEAST TWO seperate things, I'm inclined to agree with what they say.

- Actually, the fighters did do just that. If you watch that battle scene, it seems to show that the Galaxy wings and the attack groups (Norway, Steamrunner, Saber, Akira) do the damage while the fighters are basically cannon fodder.

Let's look at a large scale fleet engagement in Star Wars, from, say, Return of the Jedi where they attack the Death Star II:
Rebel Fleet comes out of Hyperspace...the medical frigate, some transports, some Mon Cal cruisers and even a few Corellian corvettes. Buzzing around between them is Red group, Grey group, Green group, and Gold group (headed up by the Millenium Falcon), comprising of A-wings, Y-Wings, X-wings and B-Wings.

The Star Destroyer battle group jumps in behind them and launches loads of Tie Interceptors and fighters and a massive dogfight begins. The capital ships do take shots at the fighters, but the pulse laser and ion turrets are not fast enough to really score many hits, making the fighting much more fighter orientated, and therefore, better to watch.

(Note while this is is going on the scene keeps switching between a lightsabre battle and a ground battle)

When the shield is knocked out the fighters then proceed to have a high speed chase through an access shaft to the central reactor, which they cripple, and then escape through another shaft, this time being tailed by fire.

Let's then look at the fleet battle from the DS9 episode which does include the Fed Fighters:

Federation fleet (comprising of practically all the classes and even some kit-bashes) comes out of warp to find a Dominion fleet parked waiting for them. After the orders are given, head on fights begin between one ship and another, with no covering fire from any of the others. Fighters are seen at the beginning, but then seem to vanish...little to no shots are seen to miss their targets thanks to the nature of using beam weapons and this whole battle is shown on screen for a cumulative time of about 40 seconds, the rest is taken up by inane banter back on DS9. In the final episode of DS9 the largest battle is ommitted altogether

I guess all that proves is that Star Wars is much much more exciting to watch when it comes to any kind of engagement in space.


I'll type some more in a while.

------------------

Klingons an excuse for bad actors too? They didn't hire Okrand for nothing...

Actually, Star Trek makes the point that humans and a large number of species are variants upon a single species.

Now, is the argument here "Which Sci-Fi setting is better: Star Trek or Star Wars," it's easy enough to argue that Star Wars isn't included in the genre.

And about all the good Star Trek ships being CGI: In the original series, and the first 6 movies, the ships were models too. The Bird of Prey (Klingon) is definitely up to par with any of the Star Wars ships, and that was a model.

I think that Star Trek and Star Wars were designed to be different things. Star Trek is about an empire. Star Wars is about a group of small little people doing things which are unrealistic in any sense and winning.

I don't think any movie should have to resort to make the bad guys "complete and total idiots" just so that the good guys can win.

------------------
What others can travel so far into so many universes yet remain so deeply rooted in their own?
[url="http://"http://marathon.invasion.tripod.com"]M:Inv[/url] and the [url="http://"http://pub61.ezboard.com/bmarathoninvasion"]M:Inv Webboards[/url]

Quote

I think not.

Star Trek is a name virtually synonymous with 'bloody annoying techno-babble to pad out the episodes'.
Where's the interest in an empire where everyone gets along with each other in....perfect.....harmony?

Just as something extra, the character of those 'small little people' develop more in those three two-hour films than the crew of the Enterprise does in countless hours of utter inanity.

Watch Star Trek, and find me a plot twist equal and as memorable as 'Luke, I am your father!'

------------------