Ambrosia Software Web Board: Trial Balloon - Ambrosia Software Web Board

Pardon my research.
Suppose there were a (legal) remake of Cythera, using the original media (with minor improvements, but not all new graphics) and scenario (same plot, maybe some new content, but nothing affecting the main story) but with bugfixes and completion of half-finished features like fishing. This hypothetical remake will run on current versions of OS X, Linux and Windows.

Would you pay $30 for it? If not, what would you pay?

Suppose that the remake above also included an editor allowing users to create and share their own game content. This editor would require rudimentary programming skills to use on more than a trivial level.

Would you be willing to pay more for it, if it included such an editor?

Don't read too much into this.

I'd willingly pay $15 for a remake of Cythera. It may look like I just picked the lowest price on the list, but truly, I don't think many people would want to pay much more for a remake of a $25 game with the exact same content. However, the editor would affect my decision. It depends on how basic these rudimentary programming skills you refer to are and how usable such an editor would be. If there were a great editor, I'd probably pay more, yes.

The fan in me would pay $30 for sure, but the gamer in me would really only pay $25.

If the editor was as easy to use as say, MASCOT, then I'd definitely be willing to spend more, especially if the editor had the ability to introduce new sprites/music/skills/etc.

Because an editor would be needed to fix most of the scenario bugs/incomplete features, the editor would definitely be able to do all those things, and much more. It's the "easy" part that is in question...

Anyway, thanks for your data.

I voted that I'd be willing to pay $30, because I love Cythera. But I don't think it's fair. I already paid the registration cost, and I don't think it would be right for Ambrosia to say I have to re-pay it just to keep playing the game. I already think they should either remake the game or give me my money back since the game is obsolete :P For any other game, I think I'd refuse to re-pay the registration, but for Cythera, since I love it so much, I'd pay. I would probably pay considerably more than $30 if it came down to it. (I think on previous games Ambrosia gave a discount on the OS X version if you'd registered the OS 9 version, is that right?)

I voted than an editor would not affect my decision. I don't know what I'd do with it even if I did have programming skills, which I don't. If it would be possible for me to download and play other people's editings without any programming skills, that would be fun.

How about a port to DS while we're at it?

I voted $20, but I think it'd depend mainly on how good the editor would be. If the editor were easy to use but still had respectable features, I'd certainly be willing to pay more. I can understand why an editor for Cythera would require some programming knowledge and would not necessarily consider that to be a large impediment to its use (depending, as Wizard said, on how much knowledge is required).

By programming knowledge do you mean the amount that StarCraft's map Editor and Warcraft 3's editor required?

Here's a hypothetical example, written in Python. Numbers etc are completely made up; this has nothing to do with Cythera



That kind of thing, mostly. You'd have to edit text files... in all honesty anyone with enough of a brain to write an interesting scenario should be able to figure out what is going on with something like that enough to make, say, a sword of fire with a different picture and different damage, and it would presumably be documented.

However, if you wanted to do something more sophisticated, like, say, add a new scroll that does something that is qualitatively different from a previous one - e.g. one that summons a horde of angry squirrellizards to devour all who oppose you, rather than changing the fireball scroll so that it makes a blue blast and does cold damage instead of fire damage - some understanding of actual programming would be required. But then, it may be that someone has already made a scroll that summons 1-4 rat lizards and all you need to do is modify it. (I choose summoning here because I don't think Cythera has any routine summoning, if memory serves; if you wanted to do something like do damage with a scroll, well, there are plenty of ones you could modify in the game already.)

Scripting quests would presumably be somewhat more involved, as well.

Some people have a psychological barrier against "programming" which they think means having to edit text files... but in reality, the level of logical complexity required is what matters. People do some really sophisticated stuff with EV mission bits for example, which is way harder conceptually than changing a "Damage.Cold" to "Damage.Fire" or such in a text file, but because the later required editing a text file instead of a graphical form... some people will balk at it.

That looks like something similar to the level of knowledge Coldstone required, just without a "fancy" UI.

What your proposing sounds like more of an 'upgrade' then an actual game, sure I would pay $15-$20 for it, but I would willing to pay more for a new storyline or a sequel ($25-$30)

This post has been edited by IT 000: 27 December 2009 - 06:51 PM

It'd be better then if the editor was at least a little like Anvil for Marathon, where you could select weapons from the list and change their sprites, sounds, damage, damage type etc.

And when you applied it to scrolls and quests and such, it would be somewhat similar.

But my main point is that an interface opens up that allows you to easily edit the text files which would be saved to a 'game data' folder or something so that the game could use it.

But I also think there should be two editor if not one huge fancy one. While the first one would deal mainly with creation and management of the elements to create the game, the second would deal with the control and placement of said elements in the game. Simply, one's text based, the other's graphically based.

This might be more difficult, but it would make creating maps a lot easier as well as plotting courses for NCPs.

Aquaria has a kind of good addition to this, it allowed you to jump right into game play to test out your latest work, a feature I wished MASCOT had.

As far as Items go, this proposed editor seems alot like editing items for Moria/Angband et al..

I once made a weapon that would almost fight for you & deal devastating damage to anything. (For the sake of nominal balance it also decreased the wielder's armour rating.) Unfortunately when I found where it had randomly generated at, it was Cursed... *sigh*

I'm assuming the map would be best viewed with a fixed width font, or does it need to be described square by square? The first way would be easiest to plot the terrain, but the second way would probably work better for placing Items/Monsters/Plots.
I was playing with the Harry editor recently & couldn't figure out how to make the buttons work with their doors/whatever.

As far as I can figure it's impossible to include actual story elements without some programing type knowledge.

If you could make a scenario editor system that has a shallow enough learning curve, for an engine like Delver, I'd strongly consider paying as much as $50 for it.

That's probably a fair comparison, as far as editors go. However, there would be a graphical map editor, because Cythera's map is too complex (what with multiple layers and all) to be an easily-editable text file.

You should theoretically be able to hack together quests from existing ones in many cases, but in general they would require rudimentary programming skills.

I like the sound of the editor. I guess I'd find a way to drop $30 (even if it means not paying for WoW/EVE) to get a chance to play through the story line.