Ambrosia Software Web Board: What would the Ares universe be like 100 years after the game? - Ambrosia Software Web Board

The Sals and Auds don't fly superships, but the Elejeetians do...
The Elejeetian crusier has the firepower of an Audemedon gunship.

As for stealing tech, the Salrilians have had the Audemedons under their control for about 800 years at the time of the game. If there was any possible way to put ASB beams and Inas pulses on Salrilian ships, they would have them. If the Salrilians can't put Aud tech on their ships, there isn't any chance that the humans could steal tech from disabled ships. The Salrilians are the Audemedon's masters, but they can't get Audemedon tech. The humans have much lower tech, plus they can't just order parts from some Aud factory. There must be fundamental differences in the Ishiman/Human/Gaitori/Cantharan/Salrilian/Audemedon power systems that preclude them from being used on another race's ships.

This post has been edited by Patrick: 25 September 2007 - 03:14 PM

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The Elejeetian crusier is NOT tied with the Audemedon crusier. While they are identical in every way save FTL speed(not sure about that though) and weapons, the Elejeetian weapons are vastly superior.

Onas Pulse
200 damage
push-back effect
fires every 13/20ths of a second

Newo Beam
should have disabling effect
80 damage
same fire rate as ASB beam
Audemedon weapons-------
Inas Pulse
200 damage
no effect
fires every 22/20ths of a second

ASB beam
no effect
80 damage
same fire rate as Newo beam

Holo projector
projects 2 holographic copies that computer-controlled ships will attack


The Elejeetian weapons are equal to the Audemedon weapons on a gunship. The holo-projector is nice, but not enough to match the Onas Pulse since it's fire rate is almost double that of the Inas Pulse and it has the push-away effect.

This post has been edited by Patrick: 25 September 2007 - 03:14 PM

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First off, have you made it to CH 20? An Ishiman ship with Eleejeetian and Salrilian weapons...

Next, remember that the Auds are the HIGH GUARD. Gererally, the elite forces are always better equiped. Maybe the aud carriers of the previous year had T-space bolt rods...

Whatever. I don't care anymore.

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Actually, the PK beams aren't identical. The Cantharan one has slightly less range, but travels faster. The LRPK beam doesn't have upgraded damage, Slug.

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"You can get much further with kind words and a loaded gun than you can with kind words alone."
- Al Capone

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Sorry, I forgot about chpt. 20 still, it can't be easy to transfer different tech to another race's ships. Otherwise the Ishimans/Humans would probably have just built a lot of Modified crusiers and swarmed the gateship. As for the LRPK replacing the Rapid PK, they were almost the same weapon.Maybe it was some Ishiman version of the LRPK which was identical to the Salrilian version but was too high-tech for the Ishimans to mass-produce?

This post has been edited by Patrick: 25 September 2007 - 03:14 PM

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Less range. That's what I said.

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They're a step closer to PhotoKinetic Beams from lasers. I said they were experimenting with PhotoKinetics.

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Your point being...?

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There goes that "maybe" argument again. The Salrilians contained the Audemedons because they forsaw them becoming a major threat in the galaxy, not to serve as a high guard. It's only after they subjugated the Axis that the Salrilians discovered the usefulness of the Audemedons. You don't think that if they could, the Salrilians might have put some Audemedon tech onto their ships? There isn't the teeniest possibility of that?

To answer that, yes they would but they couldn't.

No offence, Darkk, but unless you know fully what you're talking about, don't say it.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

Whatever. I'm no longer trying to make any points. Did you miss the part where I agreed humans wouldn't be complete tech-scavengers?

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Let's talk about number systems for the different races and why they aren't compatible.

Humans have a total of 10 fingers. That's how we started our first number system, base 10: by counting on our fingers.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

Gaitori have a total of 8 digits on their arms, so they must use a base 8 system. It goes: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10
Look at the base of all their ship design. The base polygon (below the engines and the guns) is a cross between a hexagon and a rectangle. It has 8 sides!

Cantharans have a total of 24 digits on their wings/arms, using a system of base 24. It goes:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, 10
The most common ship design is a 3d-shape of two boxes intersecting each other. 24 vertexes!

Ishimans must use base 4, as apparent from their portrait:
1, 2, 3, 10

Elejeetians have 3 probosci. It is indisputable for them to use base 3
1, 2, 10
Count the number of outside stripes on the Elejeetian Cruiser

The Obish have 3 fingers on each hand. If you look closely at their ship portraits you'll see numerous occurences of the numbers 3 and 6 in their designs. I believe they use a base 3 system.
1, 2, 10

The Salrilians are unknown. They have no apparent digits, and I couldn't help notice how random their ship design is.

Audemedons are Robots, and all computers start out as using base 2 (1 meaning "on", 0 meaning "off") They'd most likely still be using that system.
1, 10
Either that or Base 3 (2 meaning "random")
1, 2, 10
It's most likely they use base two. Look how perfectly symmetrical their ship design is, and how all the features are in pairs, unless it's in the dead center so it's symmety remains undisputed.

What does all this have to do with compatibility? The number systems are totally incompatible. That's why the special weapons are on an Ishiman ship in level 20, and not a human ship.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

About the Ishiman Enhanced cruiser having Salrilian and Eelejeetian weapons, why, pray tell, would the Salrilians give weapons to their enemies? Also, about the Human's discussion earlier in the topic, why do you think that the Ishimans would let the Humans keep any Ishiman weaponry? Also, why do you think that it would take them so long to recover? Sure, with Ishiman (or otherwise) help they could improve their weapons, but they wouldn't have anything to reverse-engineer. Also, the Humans would have nothing against the Gaitori; the Gaitori did nothing to them directly, and then the Gaitori military was crushed, giving way for the Gatori Isolationists, enemies of Cantharis, to take over. And yes, the Humans DO want revenge.

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I meant the humans would have seen and learned the technology en route. For examples of people learning tech fast, bone up on the history of tech theft in the industrial revolution. Remeber, the Ares crew is humanity's best.

As for how the Ishimans got sal tech for the modified cruiser, they probably disabled a sal cruiser and rigged a power converter on the HVC. They also might have had a few of their own.

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Actually, the ancient Sumerians started out with a base 6 system.

The point: You don't necessarily have to go by how many fingers you have. That would be far too unimaginative. The galaxy tend to be far more creative than human beings.

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"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

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Stop looking at things so black-and-white. "Good Guys", "Bad guys". You people always see the Ares species relations as two sides: Those who fought with you and those who fought against you. It's more complex than that!

The Salrilians and Ishiman are not enemies. They've cooperated in the past and tolerate each other.

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I'm sure in their ancient pasts, these races have had uncertanties with number systems too, but eventually a universal system set in.

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Many of the isolated human nations developed the same base system: base 10. These nations had extremely different cultures.

Face it: in the beginning, your first primitive thought is your hands. Babies sometimes spend hours just sitting there and examining their hands because it's the first thing they see.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

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This doesn't explain the fact that the ancient Sumerians used a base 6 system.

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I think what you're trying to do is to substitute what is reasonable on Earth for an alien species. I don't believe that is a reasonable course of action. I think you have to appreciate how different an alien race is from the human race. We're talking about completely different genetic structure. We're talking about completely different line of thinking. We're talking about totally different experiences. Trying to make assumptions about an alien race using your own line of thinking and experiences may be flawed. I would like to suggest that the differences between an alien race v. the human race is far broader than the differences between two races on Earth. Trying to speculate about the former using what you know may be a questionable method of extrapolation.

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"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

Nathan really needs to settle this.

Personally, I still think the key word in "...with due arrogance..." is due.

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htjyang: Exactly! I was just trying to point out how different all of the Alien races are in Ares. People like Darkk assume that all aliens are the same and their cultures and technologies are interchangable. They are so different, swapping their tech and ships would like throwing eggs into a fan!

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

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I hope not. The more questions left unanswered, the more room for the imagination for the rest of us.

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"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

Translation: I like to argue

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

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That's what this topic was made for.

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I agree. There's a time and a place for the foot to be put down, and this certainly isn't it.

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Throughout their history these "unenlightened" beings have continually opposed and fought abuses of power wrought by their own bretheren. We, as the prophets would do well to learn from these Humans.
-Final statement of the Salrilian reformist Sirthis shortly before his execution.

What were we areguing about?

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

Oh, about the tech theft thing: the Obish and Cantharans use SALRILIAN stealth fields.

The reason people don't fly superships is they can't capture stuff intact without more work than just developing it. The humans have been around (and probably helped build on the planets) Ishiman ships. They've also flown Eleejeetian ships, and the HVC from level 20.

Letting the humans build the carriers and HVDs in 17 will let them build them on Earth later. This is exactly how the US got the spinning jenny and power loom during the industrial revolution.

You can tell the humans built the ishiman ships, because the Ishimans wouldn't have been risking their lives in the bases.

As for the fundamental power/materials differences, pray tell what would those be?
The essential atomic elements are all known to humans, any we don't know would be too unstable to use at all, and any exotic construction could be figured out with a good dissasembly. Power is either electicity, radiation, or plasma, all of which could be duplicated quite easily if examined.

And remeber, "Your instincual agressiveness has served you well."

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What about dark matter and antimatter for power and materials? And there are plenty of new substances being developed all the time, and there will always be more. Don't say we already know everything, 'cause we'll be extinct before we really do.

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"You can get much further with kind words and a loaded gun than you can with kind words alone."
- Al Capone

I'm not saying "we know everything", I'm saying "we know everything we can't figure out by by being taught how to build". Everytime you have a planet, it's the humans constructing the ships. All Ishiman tech, bam.

None of those power sources, indeed none I can think of, would be something we wouldn't know a ƒ¨ç° about if we could look at them and maybe even take them apart. Same with materials: scan it, test it, make it.

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You have no idea whether it was given to them or if they stole it and reverse-engineered it.

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I would like to humbly suggest that there is a big deal of difference between a future space-faring warship v. a simple machine used during the Industrial Revolution. Even if you compare a modern day nuclear submarine to the simple machines you mentioned, the former is mind-bogglingly more complex.

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What makes you think they weren't built by robots? What makes you think that those bases weren't separated from humans and humans were warned not to go close or they'll be zapped? Or worse.

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"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

Exactly. Just look at car building. Almost everything in car construction nowadays is done by robots. I think a different program was loaded temporarily on the robots so they'd build a different race's ships.

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"You can get much further with kind words and a loaded gun than you can with kind words alone."
- Al Capone