re: MaG scoring for season 2(about the clan ranks)

I guess I should take a poll on this. here are the relevant points of the [url="http://"http://www.aresaxis.net/hosted_media/magchatlog1.txt"]conversation[/url]:

Quote

Greybeard: col--the single player ladder is seperate from the clan ladder
Greybeard: so if they don't score a game on the single ladder it won't be recorded as sp
Col. El Patrick: so the players in a clan also get points ranked on a clan ladder and this would be counting only games vs other clan players?
Greybeard: yes
Col. El Patrick: ah
Col. El Patrick: so on clan ladder
Greybeard: but they never appear on the sp ladder
Onii7: testing
Onii7: thats better
Col. El Patrick: ah so a player would be choosing whethere
Greybeard: right
Onii7: testing
Col. El Patrick: to play a clan game or sp game if hes in a clan and facing a member of another clan
Col. El Patrick: or is that auto a clan game
Onii7: hmm
Onii7: hmm
Greybeard: depends where they score it
Onii7: hmm
Col. El Patrick: ah so they choose to score on singleplayer or clan
Col. El Patrick: i see
Greybeard: right
Onii7: hmm
Col. El Patrick: well i think way it ought to work is that
Onii7: lala lalala
Onii7: hmmm....
Col. El Patrick: the clan ladder would use same ranking as indiv ladder
Greybeard: and should declare the game type before hand
Col. El Patrick: yes
Col. El Patrick: and then the clan clan ladder(lol)
Onii7: patrick u have Aim?
Greybeard: heh
Col. El Patrick: would act when people were playing a game on clan ladder
Greybeard: yeah--3 ladders in one
Col. El Patrick: and it would pick up from that game which clan vs which clan
Greybeard: well actually this makes sense
Col. El Patrick: and then score it like each clan was the player
Col. El Patrick: except the lower ranked a player is the less it adds/subracts
Greybeard: if clannies in the same clan what to dispute rank
Greybeard: they play and score on the clan ladder
Col. El Patrick: and then a fourth ladder for the ranking within clan i guess
Col. El Patrick: or should in clan ranking
Greybeard: otherwise they score on the sp ladder
Onii7: holy crap bad icon!
Col. El Patrick: ah
Col. El Patrick: yes that makes sense
Onii7: chagne it fast!
Col. El Patrick: but then we'd have to pick up the clan clan stuff from indiv ladder?
Greybeard: might want to explain all this in the rules
Col. El Patrick: if both players are in a clan and the clans are different
Col. El Patrick: yeah
Greybeard: no
Greybeard: sp is sp only
Onii7 has left the chat
Col. El Patrick: well the rank dispute is only within a clan
Col. El Patrick: or oh
Col. El Patrick: i see
Onii7 has joined the chat
Col. El Patrick: lol me being stupid
Col. El Patrick: :/
Onii7: got ot change it
Col. El Patrick: was thinking you were saying that only the clan rank disputes would go on clan ladder
Col. El Patrick: heh
Onii7: britny sucks!
Col. El Patrick: spam spam spam
Col. El Patrick: Posted Image

Onii7: u like britny
Onii7: shes a stupied idiot
Col. El Patrick: so now were we lol
Onii7: crap
Col. El Patrick: alright so the clan clan games for clan ranking vs other clans get picked up from the clan ladder games between players from different clans
Col. El Patrick: and scored
Greybeard: basicly I thought that individual scores / top players on the clan ladder are reflective of non same clan games
Greybeard: if same clan it switches to ranking within a clan
Greybeard: if scored on the clan ladder
Onii7: ahhh
Onii7: thats better
Onii7: JK!
Col. El Patrick: hrm makes sense but if score on sp ladder it would not be ranking?
Greybeard: yes
Col. El Patrick: so clannies could play against each other for indiv ladder
Col. El Patrick: alright
Greybeard: sp ladder ranks all players
Greybeard: regardless of clan
Onii7: ok who likes my icon?
Col. El Patrick: k
Col. El Patrick: onii stop spamming or you cant be adminl Posted Image

Greybeard: but the games scored are in 2 different dbs
Onii7: im just joking
Greybeard: sp and clan
Col. El Patrick: alright i guess
Col. El Patrick: right
Col. El Patrick: ok then if a player leaves a clan
Col. El Patrick: i dont think it should effect either clan score or player score
Col. El Patrick: but
Col. El Patrick: player rank
Col. El Patrick: goes back to sgt
Col. El Patrick: until he joins a new clan
Greybeard: makes sense
Col. El Patrick: and that gets carried over to sp ladder, the ranking?
Greybeard: and score resets to 0
Col. El Patrick: or should we remove that
Col. El Patrick: it doesnt make sense to assume
Greybeard: no
Col. El Patrick: non-clan is worse than clan
Col. El Patrick: like we have right now
Onii7: i can't find any good icons!
PRoToTyPe: gb u want the clans listed on this too?
PRoToTyPe: like clan names
Greybeard: yeah
PRoToTyPe: k
PRoToTyPe: gotta do that & im done
Greybeard: one list should do it
PRoToTyPe: k
Col. El Patrick: where a non-clan sgt gets listed as 1000 within the scoring system when it calculates the percentage chance of winning
Col. El Patrick: which doesnt make sense
Col. El Patrick: so on sp we will remove the clan rank effecting it i guess
PRoToTyPe: hmm u want it all on one page? (like 2 columns - players & clans) or a menu to select clan/players?
Col. El Patrick: and rank will just be to get rank
Col. El Patrick: Posted Image

PRoToTyPe: i think 2 columns would be better cuz now it looks sorta empty...
Greybeard: well I thought you asked for
Onii7: any one have any good icons?
Greybeard: ranking on the clan ladder
Greybeard: otherwise sargent for all
Col. El Patrick: yeah we will leave the rank but make it not effect scoring on sp
Col. El Patrick: cause on SP there will be non-clan players and their rank of sgt won't reflect their abilities
Col. El Patrick: so rank shouldnt count in SP scoring
Col. El Patrick: only in clan ladder scoring
Greybeard: interesting point
Onii7: im now know as afoxgg1065
Greybeard: heh
Greybeard: Patrick--chat about it with Jimmy and on the message board and see if the ladder can make a decision
Col. El Patrick: alright guess I'll log this chat and post a topic on the boards
Greybeard: proto
Greybeard: maybe the player name
PRoToTyPe: should i take it for granted that there will be more players than clans?
Greybeard: should have sp pts and clan pts
PRoToTyPe: ???
Col. El Patrick: and rank Posted Image

Here is the relevant section of the new mag rules

Quote

One formula is used to compute probability of winning:
Probability = 1 / (1 + 10^(-y / 400))
However, this forumula will be run once with the difference in ratings as y, and once with the difference in Rank as y. Difference in rank will be calculated as follows:
Sergeant= 1000
Lieutenant = 1100
Captain = 1200
Major = 1300
Colonel = 1400
General/Marshall = 1500
The results of the two calculations will then be averaged together and fed into this formula, where:

So th new ladders will go like this
---1v1 ladder---
•1v1 ladder
---clan vs clan ladder---
•clan player ladder(games between 2 members of different clans who decide to score it on the clan ladder)
•clan ladder(picked up from games scored on clan player ladder, scoring similar to SP ladder except it takes clan scores for % of win calculation and acts like the game on the clan player ladder was actually fought between the two clans.
•ranking ladder within each clan

So my question is, on the 1v1 ladder, should clan rank be taken into account in the probability of win calculation? after all, a non-clan player will always be ranked Sgt. no matter how skilled he is. this could potentially upset the scoring system allowing non-clan players to be ranked above similarly skilled clan players(because according to their rank they are weaker than these ~ skilled clan players and by going 50/50 vs them the non-clan player will rise above them even though he shouldnt be ranked higher.)

Of course the rank will be taken into account in probability calculations for clan player ladder.

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#2 on MaG Ares season 1

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