Ambrosia Software Web Board: macintosh gaming league: ARES LADDER TOURNIMENT RULES - Ambrosia Software Web Board

OK here are the rules that took me like a couple days to work on. Be prepared this is my longest post on these boards ever...the rules are pretty basic, the president of MAG and a couple other people including me are working very hard on this new webpage, and it should be up in a week or possibly 2 weeks at max. Everything is falling into place though, and this is how the ladder will work...(remember things aren't set in stone yet..i can still change things if you don't like em, it's now or never)

Here we go...

RULES REGARDING MaG/ARES LADDER GAMES..

In order to be reported as a win both players must play best out of 3 games in ares. All levels are availible. if the game is tied at one all and a third game is neccessarry, capture the flag, and space wars are not allowed to be chosen as a level to play. Each player gets to pick one level each in a best out of 3 game. Whoever is the challenger picks the first level, the other person picks the second game, as well as the tiebreaker game if neccesarry.

Once a win has been declared the winner recieves the losers points (and his own point value added to the other persons if it is a clan game) Individual points gained and clan points gained are to be reported to MaG. Before a score is counted both people must submit to MaG. Submissions are handled almost instantly. Honesty will be required. If false point values are reported and it seems to be a reoccuring problem you will be demoted or expelled from MaG depending on the offense.

The ares ladder has 2 parts, one part is a clan ladder, the second part is an individual ladder.


THE ARES LADDER (IN GENERAL)

The ares ladder has 2 parts as I mentioned before. The ladder is based on a basic point system. All people in clans rank themselves and compete for rank amongst their clan members. The more skilled players will end up getting a higher ranking eventually. The higher ranking you are, the more valuable your presence is to the clan is, and to yourself is. Basically this is how it is set up in the clans.

The clan leader is the Marshal--this person is worth 10 points
The co-leader is the General---this person is worth 10 points
there are 2 colonels in a clan--both are worth 9 points
there are 3 majors in a clan---all are worth 8 points
there are 4 captains in a clan- all are worth 7 points
there are 4 lieutenants in a clan- they're worth 6 points
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All of the rest are sergeants--These players are worth 5 points

CLAN LADDER

1--If a clan member challenges a member of a different clan and wins, he gets how ever many points the other person is worth, plus the amount of points he is worth added to the clan total. However, he only gets how many points the other person is worth added to his individual tally.
Example: if a captain (7) challenges another captain (7) on another team and wins, the winner gets 14 points added to the clan tally, and 7 points added to his individual tally.

Both people must be in a clan for this to happen. otherwise if one person is not in a clan, individual points will only be rewarded.

Rankings in the clan will be based on clan skirmishes. If you wish to advance to be a higher ranking player then you issue a challenge to the other player. You play him and if you win, then you take over his old spot, and he moves down a rank. The rank of a clan leader can not be challenged however. ALL CLAN RANKINGS ARE TO GET HANDLED BY THE CLAN LEADER NOT ME OR MAG.

All wins in a clan war are handled by the clan leader and should be reported directly to him.

INDIVIDUAL LADDER

All individuals not involved in a clan are known as sergeants and are worth 5 points. They can still compete against anyone though. If an individual player plays against a clan member who is worth a certain number of points in his clan, then the individual player, if he wins recieves how ever many of points the other person is worth in his clan. If he isn't in a clan then the winner recieves the standard 5 points.
Example: If an individual player (5) plays a major in a clan (8) then the individual player recieves 8 points added to his individual tally. If an individual player (5) plays another individual player (5) then the winner recieves only 5 points to his tally.

All wins in any individual games are to be reported to MaG

both ladders are seperate, however it enhances the game play being in a clan as well playing on the individual ladder. The ladder is ongoing and resets every 6 months. We have put alot of time into this and i sincerely hope that all of you will at least enter the ladder.


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ramble on..
--Jimmy Page

Well, I see a loophole with the whole setup- the players that play the most, as long as they win sometimes, will get the most points by far. I've seen this type of thing happen before in games, where somebody runs around doing the most playing/fighting/whatever, and even though everybody else beats the crud out of them as far as ratios go, they win by a longshot over everybody else. To counter this, you could make it so players lose their number of points off of their score if they lose a game. Just a suggestion.

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"Why do we have to mow our lawns? What's wrong with the 'natural' look?!?"
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Quote

How will plugs be handled?

This post has been edited by Patrick: 25 September 2007 - 03:03 PM

plugs cannot be handled, since not everyone has the same practice time and experiance with every plugin. with plugins, the creator who made them would have a rather large advantage. Any ares tourniment should be played with standard levels since it levels the playing field. If both players or just one are unregistered they can still be in the ladder as long as they play best out of 3 on rock vs rock.

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ramble on..
--Jimmy Page

as far as mag's comment, i do belive it is a valid point. However, we use the same type of ladder in playing net mech games, it usually works out pretty well. The thing is if someone who is not involved in a clan keeps beating a bad player on the ladder, who is not involved in a clan for points on the individual ladder, he only gets 5 points for winning a best out of 3 game. If somebody who is generally good overall plays a person worth 10 points and wins, then he gets double as many points as the person playing the beginner and only getting 5 points, and he only had to play 1 single best out of 3 match.
However, usually if one person is racking up large amounts of points on a ladder, it usually motivates others to rack up points as well.

You have a good point though. what i think i'll do is set either a limit on the number of games you can play against one single person each day to 1.

I suppose there is always someone who will try to get around the rules..that's why i'll be monitoring the submissions. Remember both the winner and the loser must both submit a game, not just the winner.

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ramble on..
--Jimmy Page

I have a question. If a sargeant fora clan challenged say, a major and won. Then the major would move down a level and the sargeant would take the Major's spot. My question is, wouldn't this kick out one of the lieutenants at the bottom?

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We will not change unless we survive but we will not survive unless we change.

3 questions:

1. Can't you make the game limit 2? I mean, what if they want a rematch?

2. Can we refuse challenges. Say a clan leader challeneges a lowly Sargent, who neither has the time nor the motivation to take on someone really good at Ares. Can the Sargent refuse without any penalty? Does this apply to being in the same clan (it shouldn't in this case)? What about between clans? (the one I'm mostly for)

3. What if we don't have enough people to fill all the slots in a clan, is that fine? Like, we have 3....maybe 4 people in the clan I'm planning on being in, but your method uses at least 15 in a clan. I don't think you'll get 15 people even if there is only one clan.

4. (I lied about 3) Can we legally refuse members into our clan?

This is a suggustion: How about the clan's score be the total number of points they rack up (the method you had planned) but then divide that number by the number of people in the clan. That way, it actually requires some skill for a 40 member clan that is on a lot to outrank a really good 15 member clan that can't be on all the time. Of course, you'll get some decimals, but rounding them off to two places would be fine.

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"I'm a controversial figure. My friends either dislike me or hate me."

If you lose to someone of a lower rank, you should lose the difference. That way, there's no penalty for a sergeant losing to a sergeant. However, if a Marshal loses to a sergeant, the Marshal is deducted 5. It discourages unfair challenges.

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ok to answer pallas's question. If a lower ranking player beats a higher ranking player, the higher ranking player will not lose points, and the lower ranking player gains twice as many. To discourage abuse of this rule. If you are challenged to a game, you can not decline, it is dishonorable. You must play the challenger. If you declare a challenge you cannot back down either.

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ramble on..
--Jimmy Page

So, if I was really good, I could just beat a bunch of bad people to get to the top of the ladder, and they couldn't do anything about it.

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"I'm a controversial figure. My friends either dislike me or hate me."

ok to answer avatara and cyberwraith. Yes it would move everyone else down a notch cyberwraith. But then that's why you have the option to challenge someone in your clan for possition. As for avatara. A game limit of 2 is acceptable i guess. A higher ranking person must accept a lower persons challenge. A lower ranking person should accept a higher ranking persons's challenge as well. However keep in mind, it would be a waste of time for a 10 to challenge a 5 since he'd only get 5 points...Although all this challenging stuff isn't set in stone either. Obviously people will have scheadraling problems and can't be forced to play so challenges should remain in moderation as a result. finally if only 4 people are in a clan, then only the top 4 slots get filled. If 15 people are in a clan then all 15 get filled. It all equals out mathematically eventually, every clan no matter how big or small, will have the same ability to win.

PS: once this ladder gets up and running, there will definately be some flaws in the first few weeks of having it running, none of these rules are concrete and can be changed if need be...

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ramble on..
--Jimmy Page

I still say it's going to encourage cheap play - if a Marshal goes around and challenges a bunch of sergeants, he can gain 40 points without playing a single person twice (hence no one knows his playing style). However, if a Marshal manages to lose to a Sergeant, I'd have to say that he deserves to lose 5 points. If, as you claim, no challenges of this sort will ever happen, the rule can stay as a precaution with no effect.

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What others can travel so far into so many universes yet remain so deeply rooted in their own?
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I think that higher ranked people must accept challenges from lower ranked people. However, lower ranked people have the option to decline challanges from higher ranked people.

That way, its a tad more fair.

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"I'm a controversial figure. My friends either dislike me or hate me."

Point of note, the command structure would be better as:

Fleet Admiral
Admiral
Captain
Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant
Ensign

So

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[This message has been edited by Laguna (edited 04-15-2001).]

for those of you who didn't figure this out yet...i just used the same names of the ranks highest to lowest from the game stratego...=)

With all of these problems that could occur resulting in people playing cheap, these problems can be fine tuned and extra rules will come out as the ladder progresses. All of the other ladders on MaG use pretty basic rules that are backed up by the players themselves, and many ladders still rely heavily on honesty. I am hoping that i will not have to turn MaG into a police type system if you know what i mean. If everybody plays in moderation of the rules it should turn out great. If some people abuse this then stricter rules will come into play.

on a side note the ares MaG site should be up in about a week

happy easter..

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ramble on..
--Jimmy Page

One more question. If there is someone in the clan who is being very cheap or breaking the rules or something, can the rest of the clan kick that person out? I guess what I'm asking is if the clans have the ability to eject members.

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We will not change unless we survive but we will not survive unless we change.

clan leaders have the ability to kick anyone they want out.

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ramble on..
--Jimmy Page

I agree with Laguna on the rank issue... Ares is a space navy game and therefore should use navy ranks. Also there should be a penalty for loseing to lower ranked players otherwise some people would not be motivated to climb the ladder so to speak. Also will an Ensign(or seargent) be able to challenge the Fleet Admiral(or Marshal) and assume his rank? Or will he have to challenge a Lieutenant, then a Lieutenant Commander, and so on down the line?

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"Learn about art captian,
when you understand a
species' art you
understand that species"

i'll see what i can do about the names of the ranks. Meanwhile, nobody can challenge the marshal for position, only a general or lower, so make sure whoever the clan leader (marshal) is, make sure they are credible before joining a clan, since they will lead the clan. I might possibly make is so the general has the ability to challenge the clan leader, but i'm not sold on that idea since then passwords will have to change and things could get messy. However anyone in a clan can challenge anyone else for possition except for the marshal. Once the challenger wins the challenge he should contact the clan leader for a position change, this must be confirmed by the loser as well who will then move down a notch.

I am considering changing around the rules so that if a higher ranking player challenges a lower ranking player and loses he will lose however many points he is worth himself and the smaller ranking player will recieve double his own points or he'l recieve the higher ranking players points, plus his own worth.

I will be taking part in a trial run of the ladder this thursday, hopefully i can weed out any remaining flaws.

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ramble on..
--Jimmy Page

Well the issue regarding what steel did, was predicted to happen here in this topic. I remember telling mcborg to include the 2 game maximum in his final posting of my rules, but he must have never seen my email. It was bound to happen eventually...in a way it's good since now we can find this problem and fix it before anything worse can happen. For the most part if people use their common sense and good judgement while using this ladder, it should run just fine. Ideally, it would be great if i didn't have to write rules at all, but the world isn't perfect, so i'll make sure this issue is covered.

the [damage] if that's what you want to call it is over with, hopefully it won't happen again. steel lost half his points from it, and i belive fair action was in place here. Hopefully everything will go back to normal now.

most importantly....PLAY GAMES ON [url="http://"http://WWW.MAGLEAGUE.COM!!"]WWW.MAGLEAGUE.COM!![/url] if you haven't already, GO SIGN UP! It's a fun experiance and ares hasn't seen anything like it before, ever since the old school ares tourniments every friday night back in the "good 'ol days"

HAVE FUN, GO SIGN UP! if you have already signed up...PLAY SOME MAG GAMES!!


lata

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ramble on..
--Jimmy Page
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[*](1st Class Zacha Admiral and guitar legend throughout the sol system.)