Ambrosia Software Web Board: Ares web site -- the future - Ambrosia Software Web Board

Ambrosia Software, Inc. has created the Ares web board in response to people from the Ares community asking for a method of interaction -- so for all of you who play Ares, here's your forum, post away!

Ambrosia is currently working on a web site redesign that involves folding "product" web sites (ie, [url="http://"http://www.AresCentral.com"]www.AresCentral.com[/url] ) back into the main Ambrosia web site (with some significant changes, of course). In the past, we've tried to have third parties maintain the Ares web site, but we've run into difficulties.

The first problem is that in order for someone to be able to maintain a product web site, we have to give them an account on our server. This is problematic because we expose our server to a security risk by giving out accounts on it (both unintentional and, more rarely, not), and we value the security of our customers information. Additionally quite a bit of hand-holding is needed to get people up to speed on where things are on our machines, how to edit things, etc.

Additionally, despite their good intentions, most people lose interest in maintaining the product web site when it becomes like work. After we've spent quite a bit of time to make sure that a person is trustworthy, taught them how to use our web server, helped them along the way with scripts (we can't just give people access to writing scripts themselves, we need to approve them for safety's sake) -- well, it's quite a bit of work to turn around and have to do it all over again, once they've run out of steam.

Finally, there's quite a bit of duplicated information on our product web sites and on the main Ambrosia site. With a bit of a redesign, we believe we can provide something that's better for fans of Ares than the current scheme. By using our own system for the web board and web pages, we can ensure that everything continues to work well into the future. The plan is fourfold:

1. Roll the product web site back into the main Ambrosia web site, with an up-to-date FAQ, etc. Soon [url="http://"http://www.AresCentral.com"]www.AresCentral.com[/url] will point to a very different place than it does currently.

2. Create a web board for Ares for people to interact on, and appoint someone (or perhaps a few people) from the Ares community to moderate it.

3. Create a comprehensive Add-Ons section for Ares, with web-based admin-ing capabilities, allowing someone (or perhaps a few people) from the Ares community to review and release Add-Ons (plugins, etc.) for Ares.

4. Create a way for a list of web-based resources for Ares to be maintained by someone (or perhaps a few people) from the Ares community.

The net result is that we'll be providing a web-based method for people from the Ares community to admin a modern web board, web-based resources page, and file downloading system, without having to give out accounts on our machine to do so. We'll also be trimming down duplicated information on the product web site, and providing streamled and up-to-date information on Ares there.

Certainly some people will complain about the changes, but change is not easy, even if it is for the better. We'll be deploying this plan in various phases over the next few weeks -- stay tuned, I think you'll like what we have in store. Some of these changes are rather ambitious, so please bear with us as we work to roll it all out.


------------------
Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.

PLEASE GIVE US BACK MORE CATEGORIES!

By the way, I recommend an application of one kind or another for the moderators, if you are still planning on selecting some people from the Ares community. I also recommend that it be a rotating board, so to speak, to avoid trouble.

This post has been edited by Aithon: 04 January 2007 - 06:07 PM

Why did you have to do this!?!?! But I guess you guys must have thought about this change alot. I also like the idea of rotating administrators, I think I am a very honest person and I think I would make a good admin...
Please bring back the subjects!


------------------
"Well try to kill them with a fork-lift!"
The Notorious Bounty
Hunter,
Boba Fett

Intiguing.

Couple of comments.

First, regarding security concerns. I'm no FTP expect, but AFAIK you can limit account access to certain directories. I imagine for someone with the intent, you could get around restrictions like that, but its a start.

Regarding rotating administrators, I would have to disagree. Security concerns are one thing with low numbers of FTP/Admin accounts, but they are significantly worse with higher numbers of users. While having a smaller number of permenant administrators creates some stagnation, but it's safer and ends up with a higher quality site, IMO.

------------------
---
Pax
sagitar@earthlink.net

"Four Score and Seven years ago, our father brought forth on this continent a new nation, concieved in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal." - President Lincoln

Actually, Pax, I have to agree with you on the matter of rotating administrators. I just want a chance to be admin. I have enough free time, and I check the web board quite a few times a day. Until Hera comes out, I'll keep on being compulsive towards checking the web board.

------------------
"Well try to kill them with a fork-lift!"
The Notorious Bounty
Hunter,
Boba Fett

<"I also like the idea of rotating administrators,"
"Actually, Pax, I have to agree with you on the matter of rotating administrators.">

Please try not to clutter the board by changing your mind on every subject. I love the idea of rotating admin. That way no one is in power any longer than they absolutety need to be.

I'm interested in your definition of "power."

Other than decreased chances of personally having a spot as a "rotating admin," what do you fear would be the damage caused by a small group of people running the site? As it is, AmbrosiaSW runs the Ares site, and I'm quite happy with it.

And who would choose the "rotating admins?" I fear you would find one of the few people who you seems to despise so much on this board in a position of "power," which would create nothing but criticism. I belive it is more productive to have Ambrosia choose a smaller group of people, albeit elite, who are generally trusted by everyone, to save controversy.



------------------
---
Pax
sagitar@earthlink.net

"…They say that every five minutes someone dies in a car accident, but how often are there seven hundred and sixty one armless and legless corpses in one hangar?" - Terminal 2, Where are monsters in dreams, Marathon Infinity

Mega points for the M* refference. Perhaps I was being a tad rash. I was still in the mindset that the board was going to be run by third-parties like it used to be, and if ScratchMyAnus got on the permanent administration, we would be inundated by topics and strings of shear dribble. That "dump all complaints here" thing; that's just the tip of the iceberg. I've run into this crybaby on other boards. Notably, Bungie.org, where you will discover that he is the deffinition of Spazeroid. But I'm ranting. If Ambrosia runs it, we're in good hands. If not, the only decent way to run it is by rotating control.

------------------
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun"

I tend to agree with you, Damocles. We don't want to be stuck with an Administrator we don't like. About Sargantanus, I'm starting to understand your point; What does "Dump all complaints here" have anything to do with Ares? I'm now deleting my post in that topic. I'm also deleting the "See my other post" posts.

------------------
May Macs eternally crush PCs!

-Admiral Dennis
[url="http://"mailto:admiraldennis@mac.com"]mailto:admiraldennis@mac.com[/url]admiraldennis@mac.com



[This message has been edited by Admiral Dennis (edited 01-14-2000).]

Unfortunantly, Ambrosia doesn't have the time to support a really great site, so I see the options as:
[list=1]
[*]Having an Ambrosia run site, with little "new" content, or action.
[*]Having a site with Ambrosia chosen admins to run it, allowing for more fresh content.
[*]Having "rotating" admins that are (Ambrosia chosen? Elected?) Allows more people to have input, but runs the risk of incompetant people being selected.
[/list=a]

Is it really worth the potential incompetance of rotating admins? What is so vile about the stability of set administrators?



------------------
---
Pax
sagitar@earthlink.net

"…They say that every five minutes someone dies in a car accident, but how often are there seven hundred and sixty one armless and legless corpses in one hangar?" - Terminal 2, Where are monsters in dreams, Marathon Infinity

Perhaps we need to stick with the main issues that were brought up by my suggestion of a rotating Administrator board.

The first concern brought up was that of security. When I saw Pax mention the acronym "FTP", I had to wonder if we were talking about the same thing. This is NOT and FTP based web board. UBB, I am assuming, is a cgi-scripted application that is run automatically. The admins and moderators don't necessarily have to have the FTP password. Speaking of a moderator, the moderator position seems to be some kind of unused relic of this program that could be put into action for this specific purpose of ours. They are above the members, but below the administrators. That could be helpful, and each moderator would never have to change their password, their username would simply be granted new priveleges and then stripped of them once their time was up. This is all based on assumptions of a cgi that I know nothing about, though.

As to the reason why we need a rotating board, I have been a computer lab administrator at my old school for 4 years, and each one of us computer nerds, both at my school and here, thinks we can run the "lab" better than the next guy. We also love the tingling sensation of power. Power, Pax, as you had been asking, is control over the web board and its content. The ability to stifle one member and favor another. It's actually pretty pathetic, but after four years, you try and find a way around it. The rotating board is a fair method of sharing power, and eliminating the special priveleges and the ego and keeping intact all the serious responsibilities thereof. It could get really messy if there was any kind of contest over this position, and all but one of the more seasoned patrons of this board would leave if that one got the position. Has anyone heard this story before? Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I've seen it so many times it makes me sick. I know that I will leave if I see that same thing happen again here.

This post has been edited by Aithon: 04 January 2007 - 06:07 PM

This may very will be incorrect, but I think there is more to Andrew's proposal than UBB moderation. He mentions having to give accounts on their machines to people, which indicated FTP to me. Also, uploading scripts is mentioned, which again points to control over the system that isn't afforded by a web-based system.

If we're talking about strictly UBB moderation, which is certainly a valid topic, I still think standard administrators are the best way to go. Its like this:

Remember back to elementary school, when the teacher would leave the room, she would appoint someone to "watch over the class." There were generally two options, she would appoint a "teachers pet" who would do the job as it was meant to be done, reporting misbehavior. Or should could appoint a random person each time, or even a somewhat non-random person. The result of the semi-random choice was this: If the person chosen was irresoponsible, chaos would reign in the classroom until the teacher returned. If they had good intentions at heart, they still couldn't do anything about keeping the classroom in order - they didn't have the "scare factor" that the teacher's pet did. People wouldn't count on them actually acting on the "authority" given to them by the teacher.

So my question still stands, is it not better to have the "teacher's pet" running the place? Sure, it doesn't include as many people, but the potential for an irresponsible person is less, not to mention they actually get the respect from board members that they deserve. Being able to lock threads, etc. is one thing, but it takes real respect to actually end an offensive thread. Its better to be in control by having the general respect of the populous than by excessive use of the powers endowed by administration. Each rotating administrator would have to earn his own respect, which in a set time period isn't easily done.

I can certainly see your concern about people leaving because of poor administrators, I can shamefully say there there are a few people who, in an administrative position, would probably lower my post/week ratio significantly. And I would feel better if I knew those people might have administrative control for a shorter period of time, but wouldn't it be best if there was a set of people who knew what they were doing over a long period of time? Its more risky, but can't you just trust in the teachers?



------------------
Pax - Drew Harry
sagitar@earthlink.net
[url="http://"http://www.axis.n3.net/"]Ares Axis - axis.n3.net[/url]

"...they say that every five minutes someone dies in a car accident, but how often are there seven hundred and sixty one armless and legless corpses in one hangar?" - Terminal 2, Where are monsters in dreams, Marathon Infinity

To clarify a bit:

I'm talking about having a few permanent admins for things such as the Newswire. Here's how it works:

Someone posts something to the Newswire for Ares -- it's put in a special area where only the news admins can see it. One of the news admins logs in, takes a look at the news stories, and releases those that they deem are valid news articles to the public Newswire.

Having several responsible people that can handle this task will simply ensure that news is posted in a timely manner. The admins won't be rotated, there will simply be several of them at once.

Similar things will be done for other areas; stay tuned, and rest assured that we've got a fairly good idea how to make this work well.


------------------
Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.

It seems that this conversation is moot, as Pax has been appointed as a moderator. Congrats, Pax!

I would also like to congratulate andrew (an honor to carry on a conversation with you, sir) on a wise decision. Pax, I believe, is one of very few users I trust on the board. They're all great, folks, but Pax, from my impression, is the most trustworthy and reliable. If you had selected someone whose user name started with "Admiral", however...

Anyway, a pleasure to speak with you all. I look forward to another rousing discussion!

This post has been edited by Aithon: 04 January 2007 - 06:07 PM

It seems that this conversation is moot, as Pax has been appointed as a moderator. Congrats, Pax!

I would also like to congratulate andrew (an honor to carry on a conversation with you, sir) on a wise decision. Pax, I believe, is one of very few users I trust on the board. They're all great, folks, but Pax, from my impression, is the most trustworthy and reliable. If you had selected someone whose user name started with "Admiral", however...

Anyway, a pleasure to speak with you all. I look forward to another rousing discussion!

This post has been edited by Aithon: 04 January 2007 - 06:07 PM

I like marmalade! <-- constipated, not happy

------------------

I think we should stop deciding this as a group, because when people get together and make descisions, the dumbest ones seem to get used. Take the New Carissa, for example...

------------------

This thread has been dead for a month. It only resurfaced Slug here wanted to say just how much he likes marmalade. I wanted to let it sink again, but unfortunately it's already drawn some attention. Therefor, I'll do what I was tempted to do when I first saw his post:

LEAVE DEAD POSTS ALONE, DIMWIT! AND KEEP YOUR BLOODY SPAM TO YOURSELF!

This post has been edited by Aithon: 04 January 2007 - 06:08 PM