Ambrosia Software Web Board: The "Alleged" Improvements - Ambrosia Software Web Board

[url="http://"http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/00/ares/"]http://www.insidemac...eviews/00/ares/[/url]
[url="http://"http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/9911/30.ares.shtml"]http://maccentral.ma...1/30.ares.shtml[/url]

I chanced across this article here, and drew a couple things from it; Ares has its criticisms as well as its high points, and I thought to list them and possible solutions.

-----From Review 1 (Inside Mac Games)-----

[list=1]
[*]Story doesn't have the necessary depth:
Well, this is partially because, while the Ares universe in not far off from the depth of the Marathon universe, the scenario set is too short to reveal these things - and even twice the number wouldn't fulfill this. Some people know more of it, and eventually a plug could be made (Under the Admiral's guidance) to truly do justice to this.
[*]Learning curve is a bit steep:
No it's not. Commanding a space armada may seem like a bit of trouble at first, but it takes only a short time to understand it……
[*]Ares' graphics aren't impressive these days:
Actually, the models have the complexity necessary to hold up. It's just that Ares doesn't display them prominently. ASI is redoing the models for EVN, and I doubt there would be much trouble incorporating them into the "Ares Extended" plug suggested above.
[*]The cut scenes are antiquated:
……and still no small download as they are. Using better models, however, a set of killer cutscenes could be designed (for separate download in small and large formats)
[*]No dialog involved:
Ah well, Hera easily fixes this problem; except for the briefings a PlaySound suffices to do this. As for briefings, a ^Sxxxx^ would do well to complement the method of inserting pictures.
[*]Can only support 2 players online:
/me glances sideways at the Admiral…… this has been suggested many times, but a) it would cause a lot more lag, and the Admiral has stated his intention not to add more. Ah well.
[*]Multiple Selection?
According to rumor, this was a feature intended to be implemented in a future release.
[*]Pre-sets?
Same as Multiple Selection, but it's not quite clear what pre-sets are. Maybe it's just the Hotkeys feature, except without Multiple Selection.[/list=a]

--------From Review 2 (Mac Central)-------

[list=1]
[*]A little light on the soundtrack:
In all the reviews they seem to suggest that the music needs improvement. Of course, as soon as the Admiral uploads the right version of PlayerPro for us (/me glances sideways again) we'll be able to improve it.
[*]"The revenge motif is simple":
Well, again, there's a lot more to the story than we know. "Ares Expanded" would most likely provide a viewpoint from more of the races than just the humans.[/list=a]

----------------My Comments---------------

Now, than's a lot to think about, but practically all of it can be solved by us. With the exception of Briefing Sounds, the Rumored Improvements, and more Multiplayer Players, everything can be solved through Hera in some way.

I know that most of us are in separate zones right now making our own plugins, but it would seem to me that when these are released a unified effort could produce the "Ares Expanded" plugin that would seem to solve our problems.

Slug's Before They Sailed would certainly fit the early Salrilian storyline, and the Cantharan Crusades would slide in well. It would certainly make sense to include the Obish-Gaitori War, and of course a much-extended Human/Ishiman Cooperative (following up on the Philemon and Ser themes and reinserting the original Elysium mission). And then of course we've got the Gaitori point of view in Iron Fist to close it off.

I'm not asking for committments now, but I'm asking for serious consideration on this idea. We all seem to recognize that Ares is falling out of favor, but none of us are actually doing anything about it at present. If we can fix it, why not?

(And to the Admiral: how long would it take to insert a Sound Player into the TEXT resources? I doubt it would be too long and the benefits would be many )

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"Once, just once, I'd like to be able to land somewhere and say, 'Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel.'"
"I fail to see the humor in that situation, Doctor."
"Naturally. You could hardly claim to be an angel with those pointed ears, Mister Spock. But say you landed someplace with a pitchfork……"

[This message has been edited by Pallas Athene (edited 08-01-2001).]

Yeah - I have shared many of those criticisms (especially the part about uploading the correct Playerpro version, and multiple selections).

Another thing that needs to be done is bringing in new, unprejudaced users. M:Inv is a step in the right direction - Hamish publicising that would be a HUGE boost to the sheer quantity of Ares players.

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Formerly-Rampant Human-Coded AI

Going back to that making-ares 2 idea, I believe it could be a really good thing for the ares community if all the best plug developers got together and compiled a huge ares 2 with new graphics, sounds and extended storyline...

Who's with me?

I'd help.

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Creator of the soon to be submitted plugin for ares "Earth's Journey Back To The Stars".

Sorry if I seem a little picky about this, but what I was suggesting was by no means an "Ares 2."

The plug that I was suggesting would go to the times before the original Ares, and after as well. Thus, "Ares Extended."

If you want an Ares 2, go dig up Vegeta's plug in the depths of the Engineering Department. Or maybe we could just place that on the end of Extended…

------------------
"Once, just once, I'd like to be able to land somewhere and say, 'Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel.'"
"I fail to see the humor in that situation, Doctor."
"Naturally. You could hardly claim to be an angel with those pointed ears, Mister Spock. But say you landed someplace with a pitchfork……"

Drafting out a general progression:

• Oracular Expansion (Force the submission of the Audemedons, mostly. Implements some of BtS)
  
• Cantharan Crusades (Take Earth and the Human Systems, humble the Gaitori at the _height_ of their power)
  
• Obain-Gaitor (Again, take on the Gaitori and reduce them)
  
• Ares Insurgence (Take back Earth, further develop the Philemon/Ser themes, and defend the planet for a while)

I haven't thought of a graceful way to work in the other races as of yet. The races allied with Obain/Earth avoid war, and the Audemedons are too powerful to use effectively. The Gaitori…… well, there might be a good way, but noone wants to end a scenario with those Gaitori ships. (Unless it's a Gaitori plug)

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"Once, just once, I'd like to be able to land somewhere and say, 'Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel.'"
"I fail to see the humor in that situation, Doctor."
"Naturally. You could hardly claim to be an angel with those pointed ears, Mister Spock. But say you landed someplace with a pitchfork……"

We should each introduce some ideas, and then we go on GR and integrate them.

My turn:

The setting is the time frame of Pallas:

*The race you should play would be the Cantharans, Sal's are too powerful and all the other races don't get as much action as the Canth's
*There should be NO ORIGINAL SHIPS OR WEAPONS. In other words, it's like TC, but with the same race type of ship's, just more primitive or whatever. We don't want a rehash of all those boring Ares-day plugs do we?
*I suggest we have the plugin in different stages, to make it more interesting

Stage 1: Fight for the peaceful establishment of the (cantharan star protectorate was it or something?) against an evil race that leads a crusade against it. This may sound stupid, but here's the storyline:

All the spacefaring races we know today are really primitive, and relatively uncoordinated, except for the Eleejeetian empire who segregate themselves from the rest of the galaxy. Organised space is risky and unprofitable because the Grolk <empire?> bullies other species, using their own personal slaves the Audemedon. The peaceful Cantharans found a star protectorate that starts by building warships and opposing the Grolk and audemedon with heavy losses. They desperately harry other races to join them to fight off the Audemedon. Throughout a campaing of struggle, war, and whatever you care to throw in, the Salrilian's capture and subvert Audemed, the Grolk are defeated, Cantharans establish a great empire and establish trade and general happiness, and the Eleejeetians destroy the Grolk homeworld instead of let it fall into the alliance hands (at the last battle). This conveniently makes the Grolk extinct and there's enough material here for a good plugin.

Sigh.
[criticsm]
Ok, I probably know almost as much about the plot as Slug and Sarg.
Altair, leave the plot to Pallas.
There are at least 3 or 4 things wrong with that (mostly Grolk/Eleejeetian stuff).
[/criticsm]

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Formerly-Rampant Human-Coded AI

Ares plot is some kind of state secret is it? Passed down from hallowed member to hallowed member, while us ordinary folk have no clue to a few things you brag about.

Mindless rage

Why not have a plug similar to that but have it tell the story of the Cantharian civil war and how and why the Sal formed and alliance with them once they started attacking and enslaving younger races.

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Creator of the soon to be submitted plugin for ares "Earth's Journey Back To The Stars".

The Salrilian part is largely drawn off of BtS. I'd assume that Slug found a way to make it "hard enough." (20+ missions)
The Obish part is just the Obish/Gaitori war. (20+ missions)
The Cantharan part is from the Boodan Civil war to a bit after Earth is taken. (20+ missions)
The Human/Ishiman part is the main Ares storyline, with further development (40+ missions)

You said the Salrilians were too powerful, then said the races were all weak, and that it took a struggle to capture Audemed from the Grolk. The Salrilians weren't powerful, and I believe the Audemedons broke away from the Grolk a while before they were subverted by the Salrilians.

Don't say "no original ships/weapons." That makes it boring. We should try to stick to existing ship classes, but there's no reason we can't lessen the usage of PKs (To reflect low-tech) or build Battleships/HVCs/DDs. And of course for the final mission of the Cantharans we might want to give them a system under siege where they're building their Gateship, with the objective of defending it until it's operational.

As for cutscenes, I've always thought it'd be great to start off the Obish/Gaitori war with that meeting between the Obish Transport/Salrilian Cruiser. Of course, we'd need to make rendered copies of the Obish/Salrilian bodies, but that could be cool too. Make an Ares Movie when we're done (You know we've got the graphic quality for it!)

Oh, and I've never gotten inside information. What I know is all from hints dropped around, yet assembled the slightest bit better than your information

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"Once, just once, I'd like to be able to land somewhere and say, 'Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel.'"
"I fail to see the humor in that situation, Doctor."
"Naturally. You could hardly claim to be an angel with those pointed ears, Mister Spock. But say you landed someplace with a pitchfork……"

Quote

Not sure about doing the main storyline there, it should end with the Earth being taken (and that's still a heap of levels.)

Quote

I didn't say that all the races were weak, I said they should be primitive compared to Ares ones. If they weren't, they would just be the same to the original ships and graphics.

Quote

Try reading my post again.

Quote

Hints dropped around = inside information of a sort. What you know could not possibly be compiled from just playing ares. I had no hints, therefore could not assemble it.

i know enough ares history (like stuff not in the game) to be of help, and i have the hera skills to match (trust me here, i just dont use them ). But school starts for me soon, so i would prefer to be more of a "refrence" heh...

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just take my post, and imagine everything is speeled right.

Well since our little chat together on... a certain program the other day, me and Pallas and Darkk have roughted up some more of the storyline:

It will feature the Bood

Excellent work fellas!

Oh, and about making new and original ship sprites, explosions, missiles, shots, and programming the game to be equal and actually integrating the ships into Hera, may I offer my services. When it comes to Hera, I'm not incompetent, but I still prefer to let other do the programming.

Quote

EXACTLY!

I'm working on the Ares TC for EV:0 and EV:N, and half the time I don't know whether the starmap i'm creating is authentic or not!

I had to use Iron Fists map for part of Gaitori space, and the system outline slug gave me doesn't show where the capitals are supposed to be, so I've had to estimate places for the capitals of all the races! (Not that I'm that far yet)

Please post or mail me the plot, so I know whats going on! (This would be very helpful for the dëscs)

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'Is that what I think it is?'
'What?'
'A big orange swirly thing in space!'
-Red Dwarf

Quote

That would probably be simple enough. I'll try to include it if there's another release.

Regarding PlayerPro, I don't think I have the right to distribute an old version it. In order to use it, you'd need an old license code, which you'd have if you had an old version.

Meaning either:
a) Implement a more recent version of MADH
Wait for us to get old reg codes (if we can)*
c) Listen to the same old overused tracks and watch a decline in Ares' popularity because we jsut can't STAND listening to the sam music over, and over, and over

As for the sound resource, thanks. It may help your game, but it's something that will help us too. I'm sure we'll all find creative ways to use it.

*Is it shareware? In that case you could distribute it for the time, but I'm guessing it's got a serial # keyed to it or something similar.

------------------
"Once, just once, I'd like to be able to land somewhere and say, 'Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel.'"
"I fail to see the humor in that situation, Doctor."
"Naturally. You could hardly claim to be an angel with those pointed ears, Mister Spock. But say you landed someplace with a pitchfork……"