Ambrosia Software Web Board: A word on Heavy Destroyers - Ambrosia Software Web Board

After playing the Obish vs. Elejeetian plugin (that someone decided to release without my authorization ), it has come to my attention that people just_don't_get the concept behind the HVD.

Myth: The Heavy Destroyer is supposed to be the race's most powerfull ship with fast-firing guns

Fact: The Heavy Destroyer was created to make the playing fields even at the start of a net game. Their only applicable use is an anti-carrier ship.

Here's what you should see on a Heavy Destroyer:

Primary weapon: 150 ammo, 200 damage, long range, same firing rate
Secondary Weapon: A beam of some sort. The common heavy beam for that race.
Special: Usually a guided missile launcher, sometimes a cloak. Not a pulse weapon (the human HVD is an exception).
Shielding: 2000 (not debatable)
Cost: The same

This should be the standard for all Heavy Destroyers, to ensure the advanced player doesn't just warp over there at the beginning and dominate/babysit the planet.

This should cause a stir!

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

[This message has been edited by Slug (edited 11-11-2000).]

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Actually, I find the HVD quite useful, so long as I'm piloting it...

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"Anything that can be achieved using magic can be achieved using technology." -Salrillian Illegal Publicist ekt-Herna in his last message to the Salrillian public.

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Of course you do! The ship was designed to be what both players started out with piloting.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

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actualy i agree with you. The computer pilots HVDs really badly. Ive killed hvds with cruisers . But there is something to say about the human HVD because with its laser turret and other weapons it is actually an exeedingly good ship.

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Jesus, The HVDs in Obish VS Elejeetain are supposed to be different. Whats wrong with having a HVD with only 2 weapons? Whats wrong with having a HVD without missiles? Whats wrong with having a rapid fire 100 damage per hit weapon on a HVD?

If you're gonna be like this Slug, then you be moaning for quite a while when The Space: Rules of War comes out.

Besides, those ships were set 40 years after the end of Ares

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Oh yeah, I forgot.

YOU DID NOT MAKE ARES SLUG! SO YOU CANT TELL US WHAT TO DO IN OUR PLUGS! YOU CANT TELL US WHAT WEAPONS HVDS SHOULD HAVE! I COULDNT CARE LESS ABOUT ANYTHING YOU SAY ABOUT THOSE HVDS OR WHATEVER! SO GO STICK YOUR "MOAN MOAN MOAN" WHERE THE SUN DONT SHINE CAUSE IT WONT CHANGE A THING AND NOBODY CARES!

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Slug, I think you were right when you said this could cause a stir.

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I have a plan so ingenius even an idiot could have devised it. On my command, we will line up our ships and fly straight into the enemy death-cannons clogging them with wreckage.

Now, now, Zell. You should keep in mind that Slug controls whether or not your plug gets released before flaming him...

I think that different HVDs is good in some ways and bad in others. It gives newbies more of a chance to fry oldies, but if two people have the same level of skill while flying unbalanced HVDs, it makes things bad.

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"You can get much further with kind words and a loaded gun than you can with kind words alone."
- Al Capone

[This message has been edited by Mag Steelglass (edited 11-11-2000).]

Watch it there Zell. This is a place for discussion, not arguments. Typing in all caps is not going to get people to see it your way very quickly.

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There's nothing wrong with different Heavy Destroyers. In fact, I encourage a few variations. But when you replace the light weapons with heavy weapons and make the ship all unbalanced with all the other HVDs, then there is a problem.

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I don't understand what you mean. I have a very strict policy on what plugins are released and what aren't. But from what I hear (and what I've played), yours will probably pass.

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But I have talked with Nathan Lamont as well as done my own research on the field of Heavy Destroyers. I didn't say what exact weapons a Heavy Destroyer should have, I just felt I should lay down some general rules.
I've said it once and I'll say it again: All Heavy Destroyers should be equal.
What you hear is: All Heavy Destroyers should be the same. My way.
I assure you this is not it. Heavy Destroyers should all be balanced out. Whoever wins a Heavy Destroyer duel should not be determined by the species advantage number, but the player's piloting skills.

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If you're inclined to feel that way, so be it.

zell: if you want to make a diff kind of heavy destroyer than mae sure it equalizes out with all the other HVDs dont just make one because that would give someone else the advantage in a strait duel. Your HVDs should be equal in fire power to all other HVDs even if the dont follow the rules of weapons. But the sheilds are non-negotiable.

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watch it man slug is taking that a lot better than I would if I were a mod and im a kind hearted guy.


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[This message has been edited by Pyro (edited 11-11-2000).]

Do whatever you like with your ships inside the plug-in, but if you include netplay for goodness sakes make the HVD roughly equal with the others. It doesn't have to be the same, but it does have to be equal.

And by the way, Zell... all caps is shouting. I do not like shouting. You used abusive language. I do not like abusive language.

Slug may be tolerant. I am not. I am draconian. So apologize to Slug, and don't do it again. Thank you.

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Sundered Angel,
The One and Only
Ares Webboard Moderator, and all-around Nice Guy unless angered

[This message has been edited by Sundered Angel (edited 11-12-2000).]

I guess if I said anything I'd just be echoing Sundered Angel on this one.

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I have a plan so ingenius even an idiot could have devised it. On my command, we will line up our ships and fly straight into the enemy death-cannons clogging them with wreckage.

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nice new sig, kinda criptic(well your post is at least).

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To clarify a bit:

To make HVDs equal you can have one with superior weapons, but a nasty weakness the others can exploit to kill it. In other words, the stronger your HVD is than the others, the bigger a weakness it must have. (like maybe poor manuverability to compensate for really strong weapons, for example)

Zell, I'm thinking your outburst against Slug was a misconception. Please don't take any of this personally.

Hehe, "...all-around nice guy unless angered." I thought that was uh..interesting.

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I don't get one thing. Why do they need your specific authorization? Isn't this a place where moderators work together to bring Ares quality plugs? (or release them) Maybe you could change your current method to a democracy so it becomes more fair. In other words, 3 out of 4 moderators have to approve it for it to be released. (3 is over half the moderators) This would guarantee that one person doesn't have control, or doesn't release the plug because he doesn't like the author or how it fits in-maybe messing up an idea in their plug.

Well, if all 3 were like that, then that wouldn't help. But, its a thought.

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Incidentally, I'd already e-mailed Slug about this and said something along those lines, and we have sorted something out.

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I have a plan so ingenius even an idiot could have devised it. On my command, we will line up our ships and fly straight into the enemy death-cannons clogging them with wreckage.

[This message has been edited by Laguna (edited 11-12-2000).]

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See? Great minds do think alike!

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I have no idea who determines who gets to decide which plugs are allowed in the download area, and I have no idea what Ambrosia's policies are, or what they've done in the past. I don't even know what the current situation is with Ares' download area.

Neither have I been asked what I think good criteria are for allowing plugs in the download area -- by which I mean, basically, that I'm just talking off the top of my head here because I feel like throwing my two cents in.

In my opinion, then, the only criteria which should be used in deciding whether or not a plug should be included are, in order of importance, appropriateness, completeness, and quality.

- Appropriateness: does this plug contain anything rated R? Does this plug contain overtly offensive material?

- Completeness: does this plug generally work? Does this plug have a read me which identifies the author?

- Quality: did the author actually care about this plug? Did this author do his/her best?

The quality issue is the most subjective, and I believe plugs should be rejected on the grounds of quality only if the author has spent less time developing the plug than it would take an average person to download it and judge it for themsleves. Let the feedback and ratings speak for themselves.

I think, considering that we are a variety of ages, interests, and talents, it would be unfortunate to artificially weed out the range of plugs that may come along. Some ugly games are the most fun; some horrible games are beautiful to look at.

That's just my opinion.

I was hoping when I saw your post that you were going to straighten out the matter on Heavy Destroyers, but then I read your policy. It's the doppleganger of mine!

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An ex-member decided to release such a plug before he left called Alpha to Omega. Back then we didn't have a plugin policy so it slipped past the screening and caused an awful fiasco.

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Hence my policy on Previews. If every member decided to release a single-level preview of the plug they were working on, the addons section would be clogged with, erm, useless garbage.

Only total Conversions deserve to have previews, and they must be clear and complete previews.

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- Quality: did the author actually care about this plug? Did this author do his/her best?

This is self explanitory. Newbie plugs that were made in 5 minutes are removed.

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I don't get one thing. Why do they need your [Slug's] specific authorization? Isn't this a place where moderators work together to bring Ares quality plugs?

I'm sorry if I seem tyrannical but you must trust me. Laguna and I have worked something out and we're both handling the addons section now.

Don't worry everyone, it's all sorted out now.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

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Good to hear. Something along the lines of my suggestion?

Oh, and the sig change isn't permanent. Thus the "editing" marks. Though from the reaction, I kinda like the effect.

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Sundered Angel,
The One and Only
Ares Webboard Moderator, and all-around Nice Guy

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Yeah, something like that. And as you ask, I assume you didn't get my message, and that the AOL mail server is down again :/

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I have a plan so ingenius even an idiot could have devised it. On my command, we will line up our ships and fly straight into the enemy death-cannons clogging them with wreckage.

Ok then

I'm sorry Slug

I will make the heavy destroyers equal in one way or another, but the weapons will be different but they will have the same damage quota when fired at the same time and the shielding will be tougher. After all, this plug is set 40 years after the end of Ares, so the races will have made advances in shield technology. Also, some of the new weapons (eg Power Pulse+Deluxe which fires at a rating of 2/20) will tear a 2000 shield destroyer to bits. So the shielding will be increased but not dramatically (One will have 5000 cause its weapon is so powerful, but it has a tediously slow turn rate so faster ships would kill it if it had 2000 health) to around 3000.

Thats my reasoning so I hope you understand

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[This message has been edited by Zell (edited 11-13-2000).]

Honestly, Slug, why was Hera created and released? It's so people can make Ares the way that they like it. It is so they can customize it. It is so they can make different scenarios. It is so they can show people what they think a game should be. There is no type of standard to somebody's taste or opinion, and as previous people have said, a plug should only be rejected because of poor quality or offensive material. Any plug that is not of poor quality or overly buggy should be allowed to be put on the downloads page. Remember, one man's junk is another man's treasure. Just a little thing to think about.

P.S. Not trying to insult you Slug, just getting my opinion out.

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Sure. I'll release any plug that is good quality, not offensive, and bug-free. The reason I establish a strict set of rules and a few standards is so the plugin will be better and people will like it more. I have worked with plugin creators on several projects that were huge successes. You're free to make a plugin howeveer you want it, but my suggestions are merely a few minor details of how people prefer their plugins.

Take Alpha-to-Omega. That thing was both offensive and had more bugs in it than a rotting corpse. My rules were not in place then, and many people were offended. Eminem was treated as a Pariah, and I immediately recieved nine complaints/requests to remove it.

If you don't want me, then fine. Tell me and I'll just sit back and let this turn into another EV-Community clone. Sorry if I seem tyrannical, strict, oppressive and mean. Give me one email where someone points this out and I will resign.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

well we still think youre a good mod...

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-- Champion Maxwell Mokrev to an underling after leaping a fortress wall, killing 19 enemy SpaceMen, jumping into a tank, and crashing through all of the walls of the fortress, leaving nothing standing.
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