Ambrosia Software Web Board: Clarification - Ambrosia Software Web Board

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The keyword in "JumpGate Effect Large" is "effect." Perhaps one should consider the possibility that the word "JumpGate" in that phrase is used to describe an "effect," not necessarily the existence of a jumpgate. After all, you don't see a jumpgate in level 16. Ditto for "JumpGate Inhibitor."

I would like to suggest that the Gaitori may not be as backward as one might think. (Did I open a can of worms here?) The mining pulse on the Gaitori gunship is one of only 2 weapons in the entire game that has auto-targeting and tracking capabilities. The other one being the magno pulse installed on the Salrilian carrier and the Cantharan gateship. No other race seems to be equipped with this kind of weapon. Many others have already noticed that the Gaitori guns can cause serious damage due to its fast firing rate. When you take them into consideration, I don't think it is that hard to believe that the Gaitori may actually have a gate ship. Of course, maybe the Gaitori gateship is not as powerful as the Cantharan gate ship. Maybe the Gaitori gateship is completely unarmed. But I do believe it is possible for the Gaitori to have a gateship.

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"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

(You forgot the Shrikeolator Pulse but that's not important)

a) The Gaitori were subjugated by the Cantharan Order. They don't have the equipment, the access, the technology, or even the resources to build one.
The Gaitori don't inhabit many systems so they wouldn't need one.
c) Because someone has a few big guns, doesn't mean they have advanced everything.
d) It said in the Warning text the Carrier was in a jumpstream, which is another name for the tunnel that connects two jumpgates.
e) Once you're out of Gaitori space, that's it. If they had a Gateship they would be able to follow. You only see them again in Yo Ho Ho, and that's because they used a Jumpgate to get there.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

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You're assuming that they didn't build one before they were subjugated by the Order. You're also assuming that the Order (or even the Salrilians) didn't give them one as the price of their loyalty.

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Pardon me for asking, but how many systems do the Gaitori inhabit? I don't know because the map in Ares doesn't show.

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Agreed. On the other hand, you're assuming that they have uneven development. I don't see how you can know this.

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Did I miss something here? Exactly where in Ares did it define "jumpstream" as "the tunnel that connects two jumpgates?" Are you saying that Ares specifically stated that "jumpstream" cannot be used to mean something formed by a gateship?

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Another possibility is that after level 6, you're in Cantharan territory and the Gaitori know that the Cantharans do not want others to enter their territory or that the Cantharans prefer to take care of things on their own. There can be any number of explanations for this.

As for level 13, I believe you're the one who noted that a Gaitori carrier managed to show up in level 3. As you must have noticed, there was no jumpgate in level 3. They may have used the jumpgate for level 13. But that doesn't rule out them having a gateship.

The bottomline remains that there is no jumpgate in levels 3 and 4.

Are we actually discussing something about Ares here?

The reason why I have to be unnecessarily quarrelsome on this seemingly minor point is that since I am writing a story about Ares, I need to pin down as many details as I can. I think you are basing your hypothesis (that the Gaitori does not have a gateship) on too many of your own assumptions. There's nothing wrong with that (since I am doing the same) but I do believe you should be aware of alternative assumptions.

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"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"

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Actually, the Audemedons are "Robots" and not organic. They can not be relatives of the Nijayias.

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To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!

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Hmmmmm, could I post something?

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To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!

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Uh, their territory was divided between those three powers. I'm not saying anything about genetic relation between them.

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Throughout their history these "unenlightened" beings have continually opposed and fought abuses of power wrought by their own bretheren. We, as the prophets would do well to learn from these Humans.
-Final statement of the Salrilian reformist Sirthis shortly before his execution.

Basically, I think most ships bigger than a fighter can move around at at least hyperspace speedsunder their own power. However, the universe is vast, and traversing it at hyperspace would take ages, even if you could go lightyears per minute. Basically, a ship travelling at hyperspace is still moving through real space, and it takes time. to move around.

I see Gateships as providing a way to accellerate this movement. By useing a gateship or jumpgate, a person can go much faster than he could at hyperspace speeds, as he would travel almost instantly between any two points, so it would make sence for a race to use jumpgates for heavily travelled routes that are used by ships that don't need hyperspace(Freighters, transports, etc...) and gateships can be used to expadite fleet movements where there are no jumpgates, for example, flying a massive invasion fleet through hyperspacewould allow the enemy to see them coming and build up defences, however, if you sent a gateship, it could use its equipment to bring itself wherever it wanted to go, then recall the rest of a fleet to it, or pull a fleet with it through a jumplink it makes. Either way, it is faster, and harder to see coming, because travel through gates is instantanious. Also, gateships are scaleable, a cheap race could build one that just flies around on hyperspace, but connects to jumpgates to let other ships come to it easily, while a richer race could make an all capable gateship capable of everything.

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Hey, isn't this what a wormhole is? or in the ares universe, does this mean a jump link? gosh, this is so confusing...and i cant believe my simple post caused such an uproar!

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"Those the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad! bwahahahaha (maniacal laughter)" Xanthos from Baldur's Gate

[This message has been edited by Piemur1 (edited 11-24-2000).]

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Ooooohhhhhh! Sorry.

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To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!

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A wormhole is a natural and more stable version of it, yes.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

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Natural yes, stable no. Most wormholes exist for far less time than it would take to traverse them, and anyone attempting so would be destroyed in the singularies, unless negative energy in sufficient quantity was pushed in to "wedge" the hole open.

This is all from "The Physics of Star Trek", a very handy guide to wormholes, tractor beams, antimatter, etc.

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That's sorta what I meant. Any wormhole that actually exists long enough to be noticed is there to stay.

Sorry, I left that out.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
-Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer
StarLance

I see gateships as mobile jumpgates. That's all there is too them. They can open a jumpstream to another jumpgate or another gateship, or vice versa.

I see jumpstreams as the next level up from hyperspace. As was mentioned, hyperspace is an area of space which, being travelled, means that you move very little in hyperspace and go a long way in realspace. Your FTL or standard drives can propel you through hyperspace and your hyperspace drives push your ship 'up' or 'down' in and out of it. A jumpstream is simply a level up.


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"Anything that can be achieved using magic can be achieved using technology." -Salrillian Illegal Publicist ekt-Herna in his last message to the Salrillian public.

Carm: Carm is an elderly Cantharan pirate, commanding a mixed-species pirate force using salvaged Nijayias ships. His brother was a famous pirate by the name of Nep Lek, killed in a skirmish with a Nijayias border patrol.
Carm wants to conquer territory, having an insatiable appetite for power. He also wants to avenge his brother.

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After some playing, I have an new theory. It seems to me that ships in Ares are limited deployment vessels. If you notice, its possible to exhaust an entire HVD's Energy supply in a few minutes.
I don't think any ship has the capability to move between systems on its own, let alone survive in open space for extended periods of time(except for perhaps carriers)

Moving between systems can only be accomplished by useing gateships, which are the only ships capable of travelling at many, many times the speed of light. What gateships seem to be able to do, is either form a bubble of normal space around them in hyperspace, or whatever, to let fleets follow them around, or they can project jumpstreams. A gateship needs to be relatively nearby, say a few lightyears(still pretty distant) But the ship can project a portal to wherever it wants to send ships. Of course, a Jumpgate makes this easier, and much more stable, but for example, the gateship keeps sending you asteroids in level 20, even though there is no gateship to be found, also, remember how they only managed to squeeze you in with great difficulty? Or how about when the transports arrived in "clear the way" no gateship there either.

In yo ho ho, I think that the Sals are getting sent in by one of their gateships, as they arn't about to use a jumpgate that your gateship has connected to, so that it can pull that huge Cruise liner through safely. Or, alternatively, they are near sal space, so they can use a Sal Jumpgate to project a jumpstream. However It seems that most jumpgates(ex: the one in yo ho ho) are much smaller than gateships, and are only used for short distances, or to provide stable anchors for projected streams from gateships]

Comments? Questions?

{we probably should ignore this in the RPG, relying on gateships and Jumpgates tends to cramp a pirate's style.}

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I'm pretty sure you're right on all counts. The thing about building them in a small amount of time (even if time in Ares is compressed) is a clear indication of that too. (They do both come from the same source, so if you can argue one's a gameplay concession, I can argue the other one is too.)

There are ships that take forever to exhaust their energy besides gateships: Bazidanese (and maybe Obish) battleships. I heard it took 2 hours of firing to drain the Bazidanese battleship.

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I agree that the ships in the game are limited-deployment, but I imagine that the majority of civilian ships are capable of long-use and have a reasonable range. I also think that some, modified ships are able to switch between a low- and high-range mode, much as a 4 wheel drive car does, with the low-range mode designed for combat.

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I think you're mostly correct here, but I don't think they'd be the only way to get around. I think omnidrives and hyperdrives are perfectly viable solutions, but only in "high-range mode", if they are equipped with it. Also, gateships are able to project jumpstreams ONTO ships, 'pulling them out' as put in Chapter 2.

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I believe now that gateships can project jumpstreams anywhere into nearby systems, but they are of a limited SIZE, meaning that the liner needed to go out the gate, or the gateship would have to come into the system, and 'escort' it out. The Ishimans didn't seem keen on bringing gateships into combat zones.

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Well...

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Well, I think my 'corrections make for a more civilian-oriented society, anyway. It make sense to me, at any rate...


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"Anything that can be achieved using magic can be achieved using technology." -Salrillian Illegal Publicist ekt-Herna in his last message to the Salrillian public.

8 Lightnings
A strange and mysterious man, 8 appeared in this universe through a Quasispace portal generated during a Salrillian weapons test. His craft show up as 'unknown types' on most scanners, as they do not come from this universe. Also, their hyperspace drives work much differently, making them more difficult to trace.

He is a cyborg, with modifications to make him faster and more 'durable'. In his right arm is a pair of weapons: the Lightning Cannon, and a small pulse cannon. In his left arm is a Thunderbolt Cannon. His eyes are modified to allow him to zoom in and out, and he can also use multiple scanners to gain a subatomic view of an object. He is able to link directly to his fighter by means of a small connector in his left arm.

8 LightningForce
A small fleet commanded by 8 Lightnings. The fleet, to begin with, consisted of eight Lightnings, five Obish Escorts and one Elejeetian cruiser. They have a base established on the planet Tetrik V. Further description of this follows. A new ship was soon collected, known as Endurance. This will be described further also.

During the StarLance battle, four of the Escorts were destroyed, and most of the fleet was disabled. The ships that were still flyable after the battle were: Endurance, Surge III (the Obish Escort), and Eagle (the Elejeetian cruiser). 8 Lightnings was able to get one Lightning repaired. These ships made a strike on a Salrillian carrier, capturing it. A second Lightning is now under repair, and three Archangel fighters have been added to the fleet.

8 LightningForce Base, Tetrik V
Tetrik V has a large number of ancient ruins of an unidentified race. These have yet to be investigated. The 8 LightningForce base is built near these ruins, and has landing fields, hangar bays, living areas and a large command centre. The base appears quite like a small city with an abnormally large airport.

Endurance
8 Lightnings found the Endurance while flying a Salrillian fighter and being chased by a squadron of Cantharan cruisers. He docked with a station and heard the Cantharans boarding. His fighter was destroyed. He checked the records and found that one other ship was at the station. He found it and escaped in it. It took quite a pounding for a fighter in the process, so after the escape the fighter was named Endurance. The controls are very alien, so only through a direct computer uplink is 8 able to fly the ship. It is armed with some form of beam weapon like Lepton, and a cannon similar to an Onas Pulse gun. It also has stealth fields.
8 LightningForce have been able to translate some of the computer information, finding that the ship's class is called Khada, and have noticed that the language is the same as that inscribed on the Tetrik V ruins. 8 Lightnings hopes to both return to the station where he found the fighter and explore the ruins someday.

Lightning
A CDX StarWorx fighter with a class 7 Ion Drive. Nothing like it has ever been seen in the Ares universe. It is like a military vessel, but can be used for long periods of time with it's huge energy reserves. The 8 Lightnings in 8 LightningForce have been modified with stealth fields, and during their repairs, may be modified further as necessity dictates.


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8 Lightnings

Fleet: Lightning I, Eagle, Surge, Endurance, Alecto, Magaera, Tisiphone, Voltare

"CRUISER DESTROYED. 91 remaining" -Ares, chapter 9, Hand Over Fist

[This message has been edited by 8 Lightnings (edited 12-05-2000).]

Nijayias Lenkk Class Barrage Destroyer: These are large, sleek yet rectangular (like the human carrier or Eleejeetian ships) ships about the size of Sal carriers. They have upper and lower shipflack cannons with about 1/2 the combined fire rate of the ones on flack drones, 80 ammo, 150 missle pods, and rapid tacyon turrets that need no energy due to the enourmous power output of the destroyer.

I've posted 3 images of my quick-and-dirty model. I am not completely satisfied with it, but oh well.
[url="http://"http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/nijayias/images/Lenkk1.jpg"]http://www.angelfire...ages/Lenkk1.jpg[/url] [url="http://"http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/nijayias/images/Lenkk2.jpg"]http://www.angelfire...ages/Lenkk2.jpg[/url] [url="http://"http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/nijayias/images/Lenkk3.jpg"]http://www.angelfire...ages/Lenkk3.jpg[/url]

The spherical things are the flack turrets (I have no clue what they're supposed to look like), and the cubes store the missle pods. Also, the tacyon turrets are on the foreward flat pannels.

Missle Pod: These start as beveled cubes with thrusters on the 4 rear corners. They break into 5 missles that each do 3/5 the damage of concussion missles.

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[This message has been edited by Fleet Admiral Darkk (edited 12-04-2000).]

When you visit the links, hit reload after the "hosted by Angelfire" image comes up.
BTW the Lenkk is far more boxy than other NPM ships, which have no right angles. It was made this way for efficiency of construction (barrage destroyers usually take forever to build). Ordinary ships that build faster due to size have much smoother lines.

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[This message has been edited by Fleet Admiral Darkk (edited 12-04-2000).]

Talon medium patrol and attack fighter:

The Talon is the primary fightercraft of the Phylydion Imperium, and the most capable. Phylydion Fighters are much stronger than the fighters found in the Ares game and have more capabilities. They play a larger role in combat since the capital ships are not designed for maneuverability. The Talon is the most flexible fighter of all Phylydion designs. It has medium shielding and armor plating. It has long range sensors and a sophisticated, long-range communications array. Additionally, it is the only Phylydion fighter with an Omnispace drive. Armaments: Two flare bolt cannons, fire-linked, Two capsule missle launchers, one launcher capable of holding most medium missle classes.

Burst cannon: Light, rapid-fire cannons used in turrets and mounted on fightercraft. Simple weapon firing shaped plasma bolts. The cannon draws from a plasma fuel cell, compressing the plasma into a small sphere and energizing it. It spits the bolt out from a thin tube that gets narrower, making the bolts slightly ovoid and increasing their speed. The cannons appear as a simple hole in the side of a ship, as the apparatus is contained inside. Burst rifles are the standard infantry weapon.




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-Traek Cicion of the Taeskor
"Never tell me the odds!"
-Han Solo
"Then we'll do it real quiet-like."

Impact Kinetics: A fighting art only a few Phylydions have ever mastered, Impact Kinetics is the technique of keeping the energy of your fist/leg/etc. coherent when it enters the air instead if having it disperse. Involves punching the air, and doing it in such a way and with just so much force that the air molecules vibrate in a straight line and the energy doesn't go off every which way. This creates a straight "beam" of force that hits whatever object is within range with as much force as the impact that the fist itself would have. Most experts in this combat art can make an impact travel for about thirty feet before it finally disperses. This art also allows one to destroy objects that one would not ordinarily be able to because the pain of one's fist hitting something is not a problem.

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-Traek Cicion of the Taeskor
"Never tell me the odds!"
-Han Solo
"Then we'll do it real quiet-like."

There's no room in the plot for all that, Carn.
I'm sorry, but you might want to rethink that (unless Sargatanus approves, but I don't think another empire can fit in, unless it's a relatively new one; maybe they could be arrive just now?).

There are hundreds of smaller races who are either living under the protection of the Ishimans or the Domination of the Cantharans, and I think it is implied in the game that the Ares Universe is not at all limited to who or what you see in the game. Sure, there are probably not that many Cantharan federations or Phylidion Imperiums, but there is plenty of room for small, one to five system governments out there. Now what gets me is Why are all the races bound together? I know humans would never join all together under one government. Odds are, somebody would go and take half the planets, and then there would be a tremendous war over it. That's Human nature, not even alien threats can take that away from us.

You guys have got to remember that Planets are absolutely HUGE it is not possible to overrun a planet in a matter of days, even with spaceborn support. Think about it. While it may be more advanced, a cruiser can't really do much more than two or three present day fighter/bombers. It took NATO months to kill 50% of Saddam Hussein's army in Dessert storm. It payed off, but it took time. Now, Imagine trying to establish a beachhead from where to take over the Earth. That's almost absurd. Even if you just spent several weeks in space just circling and levelling, it would still take ages just to clear out the rubble. Planets are HUGE.

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I think most planets simply surrender to avoid orbital bombardment.
Of course, you never actually see the capture of a whole planet.
They might just use massive nerve gas attacks if they really wanted to invade.