Ambrosia Software Web Board: Pufer on suits - Ambrosia Software Web Board

And walking into a business meeting in a nonexistant suit could be embarrassing.

Or the start of a new boardroom fashion trend.

-Pufer

Pufer, on Jan 25 2009, 12:42 PM, said:

Greek Fridays?

"The Emperor's New Clothes", anyone?

Sundered Angel, on Jan 25 2009, 04:12 AM, said:

What sort of darting are we talking about here?

dude3, on Jan 26 2009, 12:25 AM, said:

I'm not sure; I haven't seen the finished product yet.

I currently own 2 three piece suits, and 5 two piece suits. 6 if you include my tux.

I went through a stage of trying to wear suits lots and to as many meetings as possibly, I seem to have leaned more toward smart casual (usually jeans, Shirt and a V neck jumper), maybe I should switch back again.

I also always wear them with converse all stars. Because I'm that cool.

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What's he get turned into this time? A coatrack?

-Pufer

Lektor, on Jan 28 2009, 05:42 PM, said:

Come on, don't be that guy.

Why not?

dude3 spits on anything short of leather-soled black leather Salvatore Ferragamo cap-toed oxfords, complete with custom-fitted shoe trees, and he prefers custom made leather shoes that he flies to Italy to pick up for himself. We peasants who rock sneakers and hiking boots with our suits because we like to and don't give a s### are not worthy of his time.

Seriously though, I find that it's nice to know the rules about dress, etiquette, etc. purely so that nobody can accuse you of being ignorant of them when they berate you for doing whatever the ###### you want. You should always understand what you're supposed to be doing before you don't do it.

For instance, I know how to use chopsticks and am quite adept with them, as a matter of fact. However, at restaurants where I'm expected to use them, I almost always ask for a fork or just disregard utensils altogether. Take sushi. Sashimi, I eat with a fork because it's not really a good finger food and a fork is easier than chopsticks (spear that slice of octopus). Everything else, I eat with my fingers. They use their fingers in Japan for the most part (nigiri sushi = finger sushi), but it is considered quite gauche on this side of the world, especially at a classy Japanese joint. ###### them, I say. I'm not an ignorant guy from out in the sticks, I know what I'm supposed to be doing and I'm purposefully ignoring it.

-Pufer

Lektor, on Jan 29 2009, 09:46 AM, said:

I don't like sneakers with suits for the same reason I wouldn't (I've never seen this before) like wingtips with baggy pants and baseball caps: the clash between casual and formal looks disheveled and haphazard.

Certainly I'm not saying that you have to be totally formal or totally casual. For example, today I'm wearing a shirt and tie with a sweater ("jumper") and jeans and sneakers. I'm sure that there are people who would frown on wearing a tie with sneakers. I'm not entirely unsympathetic to that claim. However, the sneakers go with the jeans, the jeans go with the sweater, and the sweater goes with the shirt and tie. The transition from formal to casual is smooth and gradual, whereas with sneakers and a suit the change is abrupt and jarring.

Pufer, on Jan 29 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

Black oxfords? I've never even been to a funeral.

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The "rules" about dress aren't rules that must be followed religiously, they are just guidelines. For example, one "rule" is that black and brown should never be mixed. This is not arbitrary. It frequently does look stupid. But it doesn't always look stupid, and its permissible if it doesn't.

That said, if you're wearing hiking boots with a suit and you don't have a severe leg problem, I don't see what the point of even considering the "rules" is. You might as well wear a sombrero while you're at it.

Man, you guys must be gay all this talking about "fashion sense."

dude3, on Jan 29 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

Since when are wingtips formal? As the old saying goes, you're not wearing shoes when you wear wingtips, you're wearing wingtips. They're the red plaid suit of the shoe world and would probably look every bit as appropriate with your baggy jeans and a cap as they would with a suit. Too casual for proper business wear, too formal for anything else. Exactly like a red plaid suit (or a mickey mouse tie).

dude3, on Jan 29 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

Or dressed in gray or been to any type of formal business meeting, apparently.

dude3, on Jan 29 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

It depends on the context. Even if it looks good, it's still not permissible if you're in a situation where you shouldn't be wearing black with brown. You show up to a big business meeting with brown wingtips on (and you don't have the largest paycheck in the room), I'm going to wonder what the ###### you're smoking. If you show up with sneakers on, that is, if anything, more acceptable. It's clear that the sneaker and suit guy doesn't give a s###. The guy with the brown wingtips is close enough to what's acceptable that he might not actually know that he's not dressed properly.

dude3, on Jan 29 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

I got the medical records to back up having a severe leg problem if anyone wants to go there, but who really cares. Is somebody actually going to say anything? If they do, they better be right on the money with their outfit, because I'm going to point out every little flaw, contextually inappropriate aspect, or place where they cheaped out on their ensemble for everyone to hear. I may be rocking some $150 Merrells, but at least I'm not wearing a button down collar, a wrinkled old tie, and some Payless wingtips with my suit and thinking I'm dressed properly like an idiot.

-Pufer

Pufer, on Jan 29 2009, 07:00 PM, said:

I have to disagree with you about the formality of wingtips, but that's not the point. What I meant is that it is inappropriate to mix what might be called "registers" of clothing.

Pufer, on Jan 29 2009, 07:00 PM, said:

Guilty on both counts. I'll let you know what I end up deciding on the next time one of those three occasions crops up.

Pufer, on Jan 29 2009, 07:00 PM, said:

I place poor taste below ignorance.

Pufer, on Jan 29 2009, 07:00 PM, said:

According to your big business meeting scenario, it seems someone will. I doubt I would though. Lektor, you, even SA could come to my formal party wearing whatever you wanted and it's unlikely that I would mention it. (Case in point.) Also, I've never claimed to be the slickest s### around. If I did clown you for your boots and you pointed out all the flaws in whatever I was wearing, I would probably already be well aware of all of them.

dude3, on Jan 29 2009, 07:46 PM, said:

I disagree. It virtually never actually matters what you wear, especially if you're not wearing a professional uniform every day. In any situation where people aren't likely to literally toss you out because you've ######ed something up, most things are possible. This is why wingtips can be found at relatively formal events. They're still not formal, but nobody really cares.

For the most part, nobody really cares about shoes in general. Ben Stein has been rocking tennis shoes with his suits since he was valedictorian at Yale Law. He was chewing gum and crying with his sneaker-clad feet crossed before him as he watched Nixon's resignation press conference from the front row. To this day, he rocks light-colored Simple brand tennis shoes every day, even though he is virtually never seen in public without a somber suit and tie.

Stein surely knows the rules, he just flagrantly breaks them. This makes his shoes, if not socially conforming, perfectly acceptable just about across the board. A less flagrant or less consistent flaunting of the rules would not be anywhere near as successful for him, I should think.

dude3, on Jan 29 2009, 07:46 PM, said:

Big business meeting and I'm wearing my Johnston & Murphy Meltons. My only flagrant flaunting of the rules is my beard, I don't need to draw any more attention to myself.

dude3, on Jan 29 2009, 07:46 PM, said:

Oh c'mon. I'd probably know who made the movement in the watch you're wearing. I'm sure I could find something to point out that you, or at least everyone else in the room, didn't know.

-Pufer

I like the mix between formal and casual. I usually go for one smart for every casual item, with something that is neither to balance out. For example converse with a shirt and jeans or converse with a suit jacket over a shirt over a t shirt.

My father's reasoning (and it was him who told me off for dressing too smart) is that he wanted us not to look like we're trying to hard by dressing up, because that looks like we're desperate for business, and the customer things they can squeeze us a little harder. Of course looking too casual, like we don't care, gives off the entirely the wrong idea, and customers think we don't care and don't want their business.

So we try to find a middle ground, looking smart enough to show we are still serious about what we do, but casual enough to provide a relaxed easier working environment.

We work from home, so we have that anyway, but the more offices I go in to, the more I see this casual style of dressing. Seems like everyone wants to go for it, so why not?

Since this is a fashion Q&A, I'd like to ask a question that will settle a debate we are having in my circle of friends.

Are jeans worn with a blazer gay?

Yes. If you wear jeans with a blazer you will automatically like it up the butt forever.

I KNEW IT!!!!!

Nope, blazers + jeans are not gay.

Who gives a s### if they look gay?

-Pufer

My outfit today is a pair of white Converse, light blue jeans, white shirt, diamond patterned sandy coloured jumper waistcoat thingy and a blue suit jacket.

What do you guys define as a blazer?



The jacket in this picture?