Ambrosia Software Web Board: If you had a gun... - Ambrosia Software Web Board

I have a regular Llama 1911. You look at the thing funny and it jams.

-Pufer

Pufer, on Apr 24 2008, 03:30 PM, said:

I used to have an Airsoft version of that, and an Airsoft 1911 Plaitnum Elite.

Now Airsoft guns are illegal in Australia.

>

Have they banned pointed sticks yet?

-Pufer

Pufer, on Apr 24 2008, 06:45 AM, said:

Only for Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders.

Vell-os, on Apr 24 2008, 12:48 AM, said:

Wow. That's... really lame. There was a point where you couldn't walk around the second floor of my dorms (where I lived) without some expectation of getting shot. I mean that's lame... safer... but lame.

Vell-os, on Apr 24 2008, 01:48 AM, said:

Why the heck would they do that? Me and my brother shoot each other with those things all the time. It just stings a bit.

yeah, it just stings a little... when you get shot on the skin, the eye is another story. I am extremely lucky that I am not blind with the one that shot me
this one shot my eye, mind that it is a picture of the same model, and not the same one because after my friends parents figured out what happened they did something with it.
it was my friends gun, but it was double spring loaded, he added an extra spring.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:DTbF30...0_Rifle_HFC.jpg
and just a week before he shot me point blank with it on my neck.

riddlemaster GX, on Apr 24 2008, 09:15 PM, said:

Yeah, we had somebody like that on our floor. That's why there was some expectation of getting shot because for the most part we (everyone else) had an understanding that there was a time and a place. Mostly late at night when everybody was more in the mood.

I can't tell you how many times I'd be eating a bowl of cereal as one of my friends was at the wing stove making some ramen for himself when suddenly the only warning I got I was about to get a sharp sting and a welt included in my breakfast was a plasticy *crack crack* and my friend yelling "Aw F***!" as he did a little hop up and down. Anyway aside from that guy, and a couple of close call from various stray shots during normal play we kept it pretty safe and organized.

My previous post was in no way meant to endorse anybody being that guy as cool or funny.

If you want some insight into just how much he was that guy: He'd frequently try to play off his stupidity by slapping you on the back repeatedly while saying "Heh, heh. Got you good you f***ers! Heh, heh!"

I don't know, I guess I'm just hung up on the idea of the law stepping in where personal responsibility should reign.

BTW: My worst hit was right under my nose, and I swore for a second it chipped a tooth.

It's probably because the sort that was being sold down here were high powered, the sort that would kill you with a temple shot.

Wouldn't you just call that a gun?



Ours just drew blood if they hit a finger or somthin'. 150-230 fps. About 46ish-70ish meters per second. We're talking 6mm plastic BBs right? Not 4.5mm copper?

s###e bro, I'd call that too hardcore to.

This post has been edited by Sniper Kitty: 25 April 2008 - 01:02 AM

Sniper Kitty, on Apr 25 2008, 02:05 PM, said:

Eh, I'm talking about people using the high powered guns that fire the plastics to fire steel (sometimes eaven lead) ball bearings.

It hurts. I still remember the pain.

Pufer, on Apr 10 2008, 11:14 PM, said:

Is that your pink one?

Vell-os, on Apr 23 2008, 04:55 AM, said:

Isn't the 1911 a Colt pistol? as in the .45ACP model?

Sniper Kitty, on Apr 24 2008, 05:46 PM, said:

We had several cases in this country of people running around with Airsoft guns (Which, lets face it, are made to look as much like real guns as possible) and holding up banks, threatening to shoot people and so forth. Then when the firearm police come along, and see a dude with a pistol, they shoot the fella. That's why they were banned in my country.

riddlemaster GX, on Apr 25 2008, 02:15 AM, said:

That looks like a replica of our Armies stand rifle, the SA80. You were unfortunate that it didn't jam before he shot you, that's what the real ones do

Sniper Kitty, on Apr 25 2008, 04:05 AM, said:

Shoot someone in the eye with a 6mm plastic bullet, and that guy is in trouble. Saying that something won't kill you if it hits your finger is a foolish argument. I could shoot myself in the finger with a shotgun and still be able to drive myself to hospital. Doesn't mean it's a good idea to let anyone walk in to a store and buy one.

What's happened to BB guns in this country, isn't that they are completely banned, but that you can no longer buy one without ID, proof of address and your name being registered. So it's not as strict as buying a firearm, but it's been clamped down on.

Lektor, on Apr 28 2008, 02:50 AM, said:

Nah, it's black. The pink one is a Charles Daly DDA 10-45.

-Pufer

Only a real man uses a pink gun. I admire you, sir.

Pufer, on Apr 24 2008, 12:30 AM, said:

well you must have terrible luck with guns, cause mine has never caused me problems. If it keeps jamming, you might want to try to get parts replaced with your warranty either way, try looking into that.

Lektor, on Apr 28 2008, 03:50 AM, said:

did you even read his post, he was comparing injuries, Sniper kitty said that the worst injury he would have gotten was if he was shot in the finger with the airsoft guns. if he got shot in the finger, then it would bleed, that was it.
Plus your argument with you shooting off your finger, is just dumb. First off why would you use that as a point. Secondly, sniper kitty was talking about AIRSOFT guns, not real guns.

This post has been edited by masters in bation: 28 April 2008 - 05:49 PM

Okay… there is obviously a misunderstanding afoot.

Lektor, on Apr 28 2008, 03:50 AM, said:

First, I was just calling it “lame” because the Airsoft guns I was referring to were quite fun when it came down to it. A simple off-hand statement that was not run past the desk of a more responsibility minded part of my head.

Second, the “there was a time when it wasn’t safe to walk…” anecdote was not meant to be taken as an “I fondly remember the day when…” comment. However I fully recognized (later) how it could’ve been taken that way, hence the following post explaining how much of a D-bag the guy was, and how we generally had a time/place understanding worked out between the rest of us.

Lektor, on Apr 28 2008, 03:50 AM, said:

Third, my "Ours just drew blood if they hit a finger or somthin'" comment was simply meant to contrast with the post Vell-os had offered previously. I was not saying "If it just blows your finger off you'll live." The guns I was referring to just gave superficial avulsions, significantly less than the damage that would be done by a projectile capable of a fatal injury such as a cranial fracture or penetration.

I was not trying to pass Airsoft guns off as safe by any means. It became clear to me from Vell-os’ posts that what he referred to as an Airsoft gun was significantly different (more powerful) than what I was referring to when I spoke about Airsoft guns, and I was just trying to get a better idea of the kind he was talking about. Now I gave out the specs for the BBs and their velocity so that Vell-os could compare his Airsoft guns to mine, not for the argument that you thought I was trying to make.

At one point he said that a shot to the temple was fatal from one of the guns he was referring to, and at the specs I gave out for my guns that is impossible (highlighting a significant difference between our guns).

The simple fact is that the plastic BBs and Airsoft guns I was referring to are not fatal under any circumstances. I agree (because it's basically a no-brainer) that a shot to the eye with any Airsoft gun is extremely dangerous, and will probably result in serious injury. That said any other point of impact with the gun that is described is fairly safe from anything more than superficial damage. The simple facts are as follows: The 6mm .12 gram BBs traveling at 46 meters per second only delivers 0.12696 Joules of kinetic energy. The amount of energy transferred is easily ignored, and rarely involves even a lasting welt. Even in the worst case scenario (note that these guns and ammo were rarely combined for this reason) of the 6mm .2 gram BBs traveling at 70 meters per second only delivered .49 Joules. This is the gun/ammo combination I was referring to when I mentioned "drawing blood from a finger", and even that wound was merely because of the relatively low thickness of padding between skin and bone.

I only ever even " "ed because this is not the kind of Airsoft gun I have access to, and (I hoped) to express my tone of voice. I bought my guns and supplies from department stores that don't sell anything with a significant increase in power from what I described.

Lastly the 4.5mm copper BB question was asked because those guns and BBs generally travel faster, and (due to that increased speed and their smaller size) penetrate more easily. I've used these "BB guns" (not Airsoft guns) to kill birds since childhood. I even went to High School with two guys who had to have these 4.5mm copper BBs removed (one from his eye, the other from his arse) because they had "fights" with these types of guns. I will say now these "BB guns" are unsafe under any circumstances, and I was wondering if they were the type Vell-os was talking about.

masters in bation, on Apr 28 2008, 04:07 PM, said:

I really have excellent luck with guns, just not that gun. I've already sent it back twice and it still jams on ever single damn shot. I've pretty well given up on it. One of these days I'll just trade it to someone who wants the hassle for a case of ammo or something.

-Pufer

Two things could easily cause a jam and go unnoticed by someone inspecting for a warranty defect.

The first of these is a problem with the groove that guides the cartridge from the magazine into the chamber of the gun. If it is a magazine caused feed problem this can be solved by using a different magazine. If the problem here is with the groove itself, that can be one of two depth problems. If the groove is too deep, this can be fixed through careful application of a tiny amount of JB Weld to the groove and then sand the repair clean with a dremel tool. If the groove is too shallow, carefully sand out the groove slightly with a dremel for smoother feeding (just go slowly, it's easier to take away part of the groove than it is to repair damage).

The other possible jamming point can be improper extraction of the cartridge after firing. This can be caused by one of two main things. The first of these is if the barrel is worn out just enough where the cartridge sticks too far into the chamber and the extractor claw cannot get a good grip for cartridge removal. This can be solved by replacing the barrel, but usually only happens on older guns. The other possible problem is with the extractor itself. If something is wrong with the extractor this can be solved by either a delicate repair/replacement of the extractor or a replacement of the hole upper slide assembly.

As for getting someone else to solve the problem, I would recommend you find a good local gunsmith because it has been my experience that a local gunsmith will be more likely to solve an unusual problem than sending the gun back to the manufacturer.

Hopefully this post will help you find the source of the jamming. If problems with this jamming persists, you can send me photos (email is available in profile if the photo is too large for the board limits) of how it is jamming and I may be able to narrow down what the actual problem is.

I've used three different mags (original Llama, S&W, and a third party mag), the factory has replaced the extractor twice, and my father's gunsmith said, after screwing around with it for about a week, "Man, you got me on what's wrong with it. Call up that factory and tell 'em to give you a new one." As far as my dad is concerned, if Charlie can't fix it, it can't be fixed, so I'm happy enough giving up on the thing. If I gave them enough ###### about it, I imagine that Llama would give me a new one, but I really don't have the time or inclination to do that at this point.

The reason I mentioned the case of ammo above is I know a guy who's potentially interested in taking it on and has a few cases of CCI Blazers in .45. While I probably won't get a full case, I don't mind the idea of trading an essentially worthless gun for a big pile of practice ammo.

-Pufer

masters in bation, on Apr 28 2008, 10:07 PM, said:

Did you read his post? I was referring to his comment about airsoft guns getting banned being 'lame'. I then assumed his further comment about the worst thing they could do being making a finger bleed to be a follow up to that arguement.

Sniper Kitty, on Apr 28 2008, 10:39 PM, said:

Fun is an interesting way to describe selling people guns with the express use of them being used to shoot people. Don't you feel?

Sniper Kitty, on Apr 28 2008, 10:39 PM, said:

The term Airsoft refers to a very large range of guns, with a large range of size and power. See below.

Sniper Kitty, on Apr 28 2008, 10:39 PM, said:

The ones you were referring to perhaps, yes. Let me bring your attention to a few other Airsoft weapons available currently...



The AK47 Full stock electric TM model

Power : 285fps (86m/s)



The AEG M4 STYLE CARBINE SRC

Power : 310 fps (94m/s)



The L86A2/ SA80 LSW Star

Power : 400fps (121m/s)

and finally, my own favourite...



The Franchi Spas 12 TM

Power : 280fps (85m/s) (this one fires three bullets a shot)

Oh, just incae you're going to say "I'm talking about pistols!"



The USP Compact KWA

Power : 280fps (85m/s)

And these aren't the 4.5mm copper BB guns you were talking about either. These are the top of the range 6mm airsoft products.

Still think the worst they could do is make a finger bleed?

Oh, if anyone wants any of these guns above, they are available from Wolf Armouries.

This post has been edited by Lektor: 29 April 2008 - 04:13 AM

Pufer, on Apr 29 2008, 02:25 AM, said:

Well good luck with the trade, hopefully you'll get more ammo than you though you would for this project gun.

Why do I feel like I'm being messed with...

Lektor, on Apr 29 2008, 04:10 AM, said:

Ass (out of) U (&) Me. I never said that was the worst an Airsolf gun could do. I said that was the worst mine could do.

Lektor, on Apr 29 2008, 04:10 AM, said:

Saying it like that just makes me sound sick.

Lektor, on Apr 29 2008, 04:10 AM, said:

No after the first six dozen or so it's hard to feel the rest. Yes my nervous system is performing its duty, and I get misty eyed during sad movies. (No I don't feel there is much wrong with using the type of Airsoft gun I was referring to [I've said "referring to" too many times now] in play with other consenting adults.)

Lektor, on Apr 29 2008, 04:10 AM, said:

Other really is the key word in that statment. You can bring up other guns all day, and it won't change that I wasn't talking about those other guns. I was talking about the kind I listed before we started this charming exchange. 150-230 fps guns.

Lektor, on Apr 29 2008, 04:10 AM, said:

Now you're just not being fair. How can I argue if you anticipate my every move!?

Lektor, on Apr 29 2008, 04:10 AM, said:

I thought that using the phrase "I was referring to" so many times would remove any confusion about my making any blanket statements.

*sigh*
No, my guns still only make the finger bleed a bit.
Yes, those guns would probably cause more damage.

You win against the blanket statement I never made.

Lektor, on Apr 29 2008, 04:10 AM, said:

I like Tippmann more. But I do paintball more that anything else.

I really hope that we're on the same page now, because we agree where it counts, and we just got messed up on an irrelevant detail.

This post has been edited by Sniper Kitty: 29 April 2008 - 04:14 PM

Lektor, on Apr 29 2008, 03:10 AM, said:

While they certainly do have the potential to be more dangerous than merely making a finger bleed, those speeds are rather misleading. Airsoft projectiles aren't very heavy and are inefficiently large. An airsoft gun with 400fps muzzle velocity has a maximum effective range of around 145ft (44m), and that's only if you're aiming around 25 degrees above your target. If you hit me on bare skin from a few feet away, I might be bleeding, but these things have fairly rapid speed decay curves on them.

A 700fps airsoft gun (about as powerful as they get) is effectively harmless at 545ft (166m, as in no more force than a raindrop), while an underpowered .22lr round moving at 900fps is still dangerous and potentially fatal at a half mile (1305m). The 200fps difference in there doesn't explain the difference, it's the fact that a .22 is a small piece of heavy lead being spun out of a rifled barrel whereas an airsoft pellet is a relatively large bit of plastic, with maybe a little bit of backspin.

At the end of the day, they make airsoft guns intending that you shoot other people with them. If you aren't a total s###head (don't randomly shoot passerby, don't hit someone from two feet away, never point one at someone not wearing eye protection, common sense stuff), they're really not all that dangerous despite their scary rated speeds. That said, they are too dangerous to be randomly shooting at your roommate while he watches television, and absolutely should be taken seriously.

-Pufer

I've got no clue how fast my airsoft gun shoots stuff, but it shatters it's own bullet when you fire directly at concrete.

This reminds me of when it was brand new...
Some kid's dad asked to see it, and I knew the guy so I let him. He thought it was a dart gun, and tested it on his own hand. Gave him a blister, but it didn't bleed.

Sponge Tom, on Apr 29 2008, 09:43 PM, said:

That's probably an issue of what brand/type of BB you're using. Could be fairly powerful, but I've gotten some cheapie BBs too.

Also don't give guns to people who'd want to shoot thier own hand with a dart gun. Please.

This post has been edited by Sniper Kitty: 29 April 2008 - 09:53 PM